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Author: Subject: Only one mode?

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 3/4/2009 at 03:30 PM
C C# D D# E F F# G A A# B C ?

 

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  posted on 3/4/2009 at 04:12 PM
yup.....Pick and choose.....Every note functions in some way in every key.....Can you figure out how to use that interval is the question

 

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  posted on 3/4/2009 at 06:05 PM
Um, isn't there a note missing?

 

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  posted on 3/4/2009 at 06:57 PM
?

 

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  posted on 3/4/2009 at 07:08 PM
G#
 

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  posted on 3/4/2009 at 08:51 PM
My good friend, Johnny McCarn, who was a hell of a keyboardist (played a nice B-3) always used to tell me there is only 12 notes when I used to scratch my head at his ability to listen to and play some pretty complicated pieces. There are plenty of players that still make me scratch my head but I remember there is only 12 notes.

You did title this post "modes" John though I'm confused why. However, .... another "voila" moment in music (besides the 12 note thing) was that if you can play a major scale, then you can play all the modes. I use this knowledge all the time. I remember someone here showed how to play a major scale harmonized in fourths. Immediately I was using it in a Dorian and a Mixolydian context. Sorry for rambling or maybe going off on a tangent. But you were being a trifle obtuse, John.

 

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  posted on 3/5/2009 at 10:59 AM
Ok the chromatic scale is not a mode....but all the modes and scales for western music are contained in the chromatic scale....

 

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  posted on 3/6/2009 at 07:39 AM
quote:
C C# D D# E F F# G A A# B C ?


Doh, right should be: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B

nice trees, where's the forest?

mode application is a great tool for sure. my "obtuse" attempt at humor was to try to say all the notes are in the chromatic scale, or all notes are possible usable pitch collections. My current approach is simplifying - moving away from over analysis for more flow.

Will it work? Who knows...

here's a nice mode thing from Ed Byrne.

PRACTICING SCALES AND MODES


Don’t overuse scales: You can only take them so far before it becomes absurd.


Major and Minor Modes

As tonal music evolved, it needed more devices in order to supply elements of surprise and color. From its origins in tonal music, there has been a two-fold relationship between the major and minor modes: relative and parallel. They are often used interchangeably, such as in Wave, Alone Together, Lament, and many other tunes. The mixture of major and minor modes within cadences reflects that.

The traditional origin of chords in minor is from the harmonic minor scale, hence the name. The iiø and V7-9 are diatonic to the harmonic minor mode. This can progress to any version of a tonic chord: Cm, Cm7, Cm6, Cm69, Cm&#916; (the traditional version is melodic minor for tonic minor). The version of the tonic that is employed usually depends on its context. The i6 (tonic minor chord with an added major sixth) usually comes at the end of an eight-measure phrase in Duke's music, for example. Today, however, everything and anything goes. For surprise, expectations are often thwarted: ii7 V7 i7 or iiø V7-9 I&#916;, for example. SubV7s are treated in similar manner.

The easiest way to think scales is as follows: harmonic minor for the first two chords, Dorian (for i7), melodic minor (for m&#916, and the pentachord itself for m69 (Cm69 = C, D, Eb, G, A). There are, however, many other solutions, and a great many other alterations can also be employed— mostly for their color qualities. It should be kept in mind, however, that the more pitch classes one includes in the harmony, the more restricted the soloist becomes. In addition, approach those alt fake book symbols with skepticism, since they are often there unnecessarily.

Practice scales through all keys, the entire range of the instrument, with a metronome. After learning scales, improvise on them one at a time until they are internalized. There are also sequences you should practice. For example, start on the first note; play up stepwise to the fifth note; come back to the second note in the same way; then, starting on the third note, move up to the seventh, and so on. Another useful sequence: Start on scale one, skip to three, down to two, up to four, and so on. Any sequence can be done in retrograde: To come back down, reverse what you did going up. Below is a short list of the most common scales. Regardless of the mode, or the number of notes in that scale, they should all be practiced in all inversions (modes).


Blues (6 notes; 6 modes; 12 keys)
Major (7 notes; 7 modes; 12 keys)
Harmonic Minor (7 notes; 7 modes; 12 keys)
Melodic Minor (7 notes; 7 modes; 12 keys)
Anhemitonic Pentatonic (5 notes; 5 modes; 12 keys)
Diminished (Octatonic) (8 notes; 2 modes; 3 transpositions)
Whole-Tone (6 notes; 0 modes; 2 transpositions)
Six-Note Symmetric (C, D#, E, G, G#, B: 6 notes; 2 modes; 4 transpositions)


If we use the C scale as our example, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C would be Ionian, D to D (D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D) would be D Dorian; E-E, E Phrygian; F-F, F Lydian; G-G, G Mixolydian; A-A, A Aeolian, B-B, B Locrian (B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B). Dorian mode is spelled starting from the second degree of a major (M) scale. D Dorian would be a C scale, only beginning and ending on D (D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D). C Dorian would be spelled like a Bb scale beginning on C: C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C (still one octave). These, of course, can be spelled and played in more than one octave. Work this out in all twelve keys.

There is always a hierarchy of notes in both tonal and modal music, centered on do. To establish one of these pitch collections as a mode, as the priority note (for example, D in D Dorian), you need to establish its ascendancy by: (1) quantitative emphasis, playing it more often than the other pitch classes (notes), and/or (2) by qualitative emphasis, putting it in prominent places (phrase beginnings and endings). It helps to be able to identify the priority note in a mode, and to be familiar with the characteristic harmonic signature (color note) present in each mode:


Ionian—scale 4
Dorian—scale 6
Phrygian— scale b2
Lydian— scale +4th
Mixolydian— scale m7
Aeolian— scale b6
Locrian— scale b2 and b5


As a practical matter, fingerings for any or all of the modes based on the C scale, for example, will be the same, regardless of which mode it is, since they are all inversions of the same seven-note gamut. In practicing these scales, keep track of all the keys and inversions you do, to ensure you cover it all. Try to get all to a similar level at first, and then return repeatedly to all of it again at later times at increasingly faster tempos. You could stay on each key for longer periods of time, or you could try to get through a given scale in all keys (or transpositions) in a given day. Both ways are beneficial, yet have somewhat different results. Therefore, do them both ways. After learning each mode, add non-harmonic tones to each, starting with leading tones; then improvise frequently, both vocally and instrumentally, on each mode—especially to get used to hearing one note at a time as the priority note.


Modes of Major

I&#916; C&#916; ~ Ionian
ii7 Dm7 ~ Dorian
iii7 Em7 ~ Phrygian
IV&#916; F&#916; ~ Lydian
V7 G7 ~ Mixolydian
vi7 Am7 ~ Aeolian
viiø Bø ~ Locrian


Modes of Melodic Minor

Im&#916; Cm&#916; ~ Real Melodic Minor
ii7 Dm7(-9) ~ Dorian-9
iii7 Eb+&#916; ~ Lydian Augmented
IV7+11 F7+11 ~ Lydian b7 (Overtone Scale, Lydian Dominant)
V7-13 G7-13 ~ Mixolydian b6
viø9 Aø9 ~ Aeolian b5
VII7-9, +9, -5, +5, B+7 ~ Altered Dominant (Superlocrian)


Modes of the Harmonic Minor

Im&#916; Cm&#916; ~ Harmonic Minor
iiø Dø(-9)
iii7 Eb+&#916;
ivø (iv7) Fø (Fm7)
V7-9-13 G7-9-13 (most common)
bVI&#916;-5 Ab&#916;(+9)
VII-5, -9, +9, -5, +5


All of the modes of the major and melodic minor are used often, especially the former. The harmonic minor, however, is usually preserved for its fifth inversion (V7-9 in minor key areas). Other symbols could be added, and they are numerous. In most cases, however, it's best to ascertain which scale is involved without all the extensions, since they are not usually all needed in the voicing itself.

Each example involves the same scale, regardless of the chord or inversion in terms of fingering and dexterity. However, if you want the root to sound as a priority note, then the inversion will cause a different hierarchy of notes; the notes will want to behave differently, due to the re-arranging of the scalar intervals. Learn to sing and play improvisations on each and every mode while maintaining each mode’s priority note as do. Do this in different registers, since they sound and feel different when transposed more than a third. Learn each of them in all twelve transpositions. Learn them throughout entire tunes, changing modes from chord to chord. Sing each of them repeatedly until they are internalized. Sing all adjacent and non-adjacent intervals of each. In addition, all their chords and all chordal voicings can be memorized in the same fashion as with scales. Do the same with virtually everything you are learning—then lose the visual and mental intellectual thinking.


Chords of Modes of Major

I&#916;—C, C&#916;, CMA9, C6, C69, CMA13(no11), Am11/C ~ Ionian
ii7—Dm, Dm7, Dm9, Dm11, Dm13, C&#916;/D ~ Dorian
iii7—Em, Em7, Em11(no9), F&#916;/E, F&#916;-5/E, E7sus4-9, Bø/E ~ Phrygian
IV&#916;—F, F&#916;, F&#916;9, F&#916;+11, F&#916;-5, FMA13, G/F&#916; ~ Lydian
V7—G, G7, G7sus4, G9sus4, G13sus4, F&#916;/G, G9, G13, F&#916;-5/G ~ Mixolydian
vi7—Am, Am7, Am9, Am11 ~ Aeolian
viiø—Bø, Bø11(no9) ~ Locrian


While we have added six and six/nine to the list for major, they usually take pentatonic forms. Tension eleven works well in the bass of any m7 or ø chord. Since there are three different m7 chords and two &#916; chords, in order to know which mode to apply, you need to understand how each chord is functioning within the progression (since, for example, ii7 takes Dorian, while iii7 takes Phrygian, and vi7 takes Aeolian). This can sometimes be important in certain secondary cadences, keys of the moment, for example, in the key of C: || F#ø B7-9 | Em7 || is ii7/iii7 V7-9/iii7 | iii7 (F# Locrian, E harmonic minor over B, Em7 Phrygian—usually not Dorian). There are always exceptions, however. Analyze many tunes of different types at the piano.


Chords of Modes of Melodic Minor

Im&#916;: Cm&#916;, Cm, Cm6, Cm69, Cm&#916;9, Cm&#916;, 9, 11, 13 ~ Melodic Minor
ii7: Dm7, Dm, Dm6, Dm11(no9) ~ Dorian-9
iii7: Eb+&#916; ~ Lydian Augmented
IV7+11: F7+11, F9+11, F13, F7-5, F9-5 ~ Lydian b7, Overtone Scale, Lydian Dominant
V7-13: G7-13, G9, G7sus4, G9sus4, G7-13, G9-13 ~ Mixolydian-13
viø9: Aø9, Aø, Aø11 ~ Aeolian-5
VII7-9, +9, -5, +5: B7-5, -9, B+7, B7-9, +9, +11, -13 ~ B+7 ~ Altered (Superlocrian)


Due to the resultant minor ninth interval, avoid -9 in any minor chord voicing, even when it is in the scale. Avoid 5 and -5 (or 5 and #11) in the same voicing on dominant chords. In the melodic minor mode, some use 7sus4-9 as a form of ii7 chord. This is misleading and illogical, though, because that symbol would indicate a dominant type chord, implying a major third (F#) in the collection (if there were one). The A7sus4-9 chord is in reality a V7-9, only with its fourth degree sustained and not resolved to chord tone major three. The pitch collection would implicitly be D, Eb, (F#), G, A, C, with the B pitch class unspecified. A better solution, perhaps, would be to call it instead a Cm69/D.


Chords of Modes of the Harmonic Minor

Im&#916;: Cm&#916;, Cm, Cm&#916;9, Cm11 ~ Harmonic Minor
iiø: Dø, Dø11 (no9)
iii7 Eb+&#916;
ivø Fø, Fm7, 9
V7-9-13 G7-9-13 (most common), G7sus4-9, -13
bVI&#916;-5: Ab&#916;(+9), Ab&#916;-5 (+9)
VII-5(-9, +9, -5, +5)
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[Edited on 3/6/2009 by aiq]

 

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  posted on 3/6/2009 at 07:47 AM
for some reason chord names in the above post are not copying right.

On a chord name anywhere you see "16" replace with the Maj7 delta symbol.

 

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  posted on 3/6/2009 at 08:01 AM
The above is why I'm a "guitar player" and not a musician. Maybe somday, Sigh
 

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  posted on 3/6/2009 at 10:12 AM
quote:
The above is why I'm a "guitar player" and not a musician. Maybe somday, Sigh


Not to be an A$$ but a guitar player should first be a musician. I teach guitar and I "don't" teach Tab to my students. I make them read and study theory. Since the creation of Rock N Roll the guitar has been approached as though it is something other than every other musical instrument. IT's mostly taught in shapes and patterns and that is why most guitar player sound like their playing shapes and patterns. Most don't take the time to realize that all great melodies are created around chord tones and all the other notes just get you to the next chord tone. It's amazing how many people come to me and they can't even name the notes on the fretboard.....How can you truely get to the next level if you don't understand you're instrument? It's like a doctor that can't name the muscles or bones of the human body. If you use people like Duane or Eric and say they can't read...well you're right but they are supremely talented indivduals with extreme ability......if you don't have that then what's your game plan.....

 

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  posted on 3/6/2009 at 03:38 PM
My point exactly, which is why I'm a "guitar player". I wish, when I had the opportunity to learn, I used it, but I was too ful lof myself, and quite honestly, most of the trained musicians that I knew at the time, were slaves to what was written on the paper. They were either afraid or unable to improvise. Conversely, most of the untrained (or so they claimed) "players" seemed full of inspiration and creativity. I don't think shapes and patterns are all bad, just as long as you recognise them as shapes and patterns and not as the end all be all.

Your point about rock and roll is well taken. However, nobody took rock seriously either until later. When I was 10 (1962) and took my 4 guitar lessons, I wasn't being taught what I wanted to know. If the teacher would have taught me to bank out some four chord rock song in those first 4 lessons, he might of had me for life, but then again, maybe not.

 

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  posted on 3/6/2009 at 04:22 PM
quote:
My point exactly, which is why I'm a "guitar player". I wish, when I had the opportunity to learn, I used it, but I was too ful lof myself, and quite honestly, most of the trained musicians that I knew at the time, were slaves to what was written on the paper. They were either afraid or unable to improvise. Conversely, most of the untrained (or so they claimed) "players" seemed full of inspiration and creativity. I don't think shapes and patterns are all bad, just as long as you recognise them as shapes and patterns and not as the end all be all.

Your point about rock and roll is well taken. However, nobody took rock seriously either until later. When I was 10 (1962) and took my 4 guitar lessons, I wasn't being taught what I wanted to know. If the teacher would have taught me to bank out some four chord rock song in those first 4 lessons, he might of had me for life, but then again, maybe not.


I hear where you're coming from....The shapes and patterns are there and I teach them but I also stress knowing what note someone is playing and how it functions at the time you want to play it...just because it's in the scale or pattern doesn't mean it's the best note to choose......Theory is just not that big of a mistery...It's placing names on the things you already know. Just like there's a difference between your fingernail and fingertip....but they're both a part of your finger-hand-body...etc

As far as training preventing someone from being inspired I don't go with that....Miles Davis and John Coltrane where both trained musicians....and both very inspired, they could read write and obviously improvise with them best of them....have I meet trained musicians that couldn't....yes many but most are classical musicians and that is a whole different game

 

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  posted on 3/6/2009 at 04:46 PM
When you're young, you're allowed to be a little "stoopid". When you wake up, you have to give yourself a dope slap. One of those "what the ***** was I thinking" moments.
 

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  posted on 3/7/2009 at 06:58 AM
The last word on all of this is "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns" by Nicolas Slonimsky. Check it out if you've got a spare lifetime :-)
On the other hand, it was good enough for 'Trane

 

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  posted on 3/7/2009 at 12:53 PM
quote:
The last word on all of this is "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns" by Nicolas Slonimsky. Check it out if you've got a spare lifetime :-)
On the other hand, it was good enough for 'Trane


....Yeah...I have it ...It's like reading the silmarillion

 

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  posted on 3/7/2009 at 01:36 PM
quote:
quote:
The last word on all of this is "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns" by Nicolas Slonimsky. Check it out if you've got a spare lifetime :-)
On the other hand, it was good enough for 'Trane


....Yeah...I have it ...It's like reading the silmarillion



hahaha- or Deuteronomy

 

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  posted on 3/7/2009 at 03:32 PM
Slonimsky is a great place to lift patterns from. About a year ago I made a series of posts about Slonimsky patterns and the half/whole diminished scale. Since that time, I have been taking on-line lessons from Jimmy Bruno and he would chew my a$$ for that kind of analysis. AIQ, your original post is actually close to how Jimmy teaches, i.e., forget modes and play from a particular pitch collection adding outside notes to suit the melody. He stresses horizontal playing vs vertical playing - make melodies that go "through" the chords,not "over" the chords. It's a great approach that simplifies things tremendously. Theree are no "wrong" notes. It's all a matter of how you resolve them.

[Edited on 3/7/2009 by mmertens]

 

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  posted on 3/11/2009 at 02:59 AM
quote:
quote:
The above is why I'm a "guitar player" and not a musician. Maybe somday, Sigh


Not to be an A$$ but a guitar player should first be a musician. I teach guitar and I "don't" teach Tab to my students. I make them read and study theory. Since the creation of Rock N Roll the guitar has been approached as though it is something other than every other musical instrument. IT's mostly taught in shapes and patterns and that is why most guitar player sound like their playing shapes and patterns. Most don't take the time to realize that all great melodies are created around chord tones and all the other notes just get you to the next chord tone. It's amazing how many people come to me and they can't even name the notes on the fretboard.....How can you truely get to the next level if you don't understand you're instrument? It's like a doctor that can't name the muscles or bones of the human body. If you use people like Duane or Eric and say they can't read...well you're right but they are supremely talented indivduals with extreme ability......if you don't have that then what's your game plan.....


I think what makes the guitar such an enduring instrument is that some of the guitarists we revere are untrained and those players are more willing to break "rules". How can you break the rules if you don't know the rules in the first place?
I have a degree from Berklee and sometimes i marvel at what some untrained musicians do.

All of that being said, i do advocate that any serious musician should learn and study theory and have the ability to read music. You're better off with it and it can be a very advantageous skill to have in the pop/rock music job world where not a lot of people do not have the ability to read music. Even as an engineer my reading and chart writing skills have been a large help.

 

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