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Author: Subject: Duane & Johnny Winter

True Peach



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  posted on 3/9/2005 at 05:22 PM
White Trash! That was an outfit! Johnny, Edgar, Rick and Jerry with some kick-@$$ horns! "Roadwork" is one of my all-time favorites. I'd love to hear the ABB (with horns) cover "I've Got News".

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 3/9/2005 at 05:33 PM
That would be a killer bro! -- you're quite right.
I'm sure getting that album out this evening -- what they do with Tobacco Road, of all cuts, too -- slammin' stuff.

 

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  posted on 3/12/2005 at 03:01 AM
quote:


I can easily imagine that Duane had enormous respect for Johnnys playing....
quote:



Yes, I agree, Johnny is an excellent player!
But probably Michael Messer said the truth when he cited Duane as a "little" influence on Winter.
If you hear ABB "Live at Fillmore East" and Johnny's ".....and Live" the differences between this two great slide players are enormous, not only in "style" (Duane is much better, more original).
But if you hear Johnny's slide after 1971, he change some tones, and he start to be much more aggressive and adveturous.
Between the years I've never read something really interesting about Duane in Johnny's interviews......and it's strange because I'm sure that Johnny had a TOTALLY respect for Duane!

 

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  posted on 3/12/2005 at 02:15 PM
Duane had seen Johnny & Egdar long before the Fillmore East time frame....
I believe both Duane & Gregg had seen the Johnny & Edgar while they still unknown players on the "chitlin" circut....probably back in the Allman Joys & Hourglass time frame.....
I have to agree with TopD....in terms of americans playing straight electric real blues there was Jimi, Johnny & Mike Bloomfield,..... Johnny really was the man......
but no one ever touched my heart like duane.....don't know why either.....but he's in there and it's permanent....
PeachNuTT

 

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  posted on 3/12/2005 at 09:30 PM
quote:


Duane had seen Johnny & Egdar long before the Fillmore East time frame....
quote:



Yes, but Duane's slide style in "Live at Fillmore East" influenced a lot of players, including Rory Gallagher and Johnny Winter himself.
The Allman Brothers Band had a great inpact on Johnny. His group "Johnny Winter and.." reflects this influence, with the duets between him and Rick Derringer.

quote:


I believe both Duane & Gregg had seen the Johnny & Edgar while they still unknown players on the "chitlin" circut....probably back in the Allman Joys & Hourglass time frame.....
quote:



It's impossible to say correclty if the Edgar/Johnny group influenced Duane & Gregg.
Both played in the same period...
The "Hourglass" wasn't really an unknown group for soul/R&B fans......They toured with Buffalo Springfield...

quote:


....in terms of americans playing straight electric real blues there was Jimi, Johnny & Mike Bloomfield,..... Johnny really was the man......
quote:



I like very much Johnny's works and his exceptional skills, but I think that between the end of the 60's and early 70's there was a lot of great players.
I think that Johnny COULD BE THE MAN, but he was surpassed soon in lead & slide style....
It's my opinion...

 

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  posted on 4/2/2005 at 10:28 PM
I think what Duane was referring to in the quote about seeing johnny & edgar winter wasn't specifically about the music as much as it was about playing Duane & Gregg own music on stage succesfully as brothers on their own terms..........i strongly doubt he was comparing talent levels....regardless of the comment he made at the FE concert he saw in 1968.....i think after 1971 or 1972 or so johnny became a much more of rock & roll for a number of years.........the fuzztones on slide definitely made me think he picked up a little something from Duane......


PeachNuTT
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[Edited on 4/3/2005 by PeachNutt]

 

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  posted on 4/6/2005 at 05:57 AM
quote:


i think after 1971 or 1972 or so johnny became a much more of rock & roll for a number of years.........the fuzztones on slide definitely made me think he picked up a little something from Duane......
quote:



I agree.....And like Johnny many other players, friends!

 

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  posted on 4/6/2005 at 08:21 AM
First of all Johnny Winter is an American treasure, a peer and equal of Duane, Jimi, Jimmy Page, Clapton, Beck and whoever IMO. Duane's comment about Johnny is not a put down but a compliment in the form of inspiration, a sort of if he can do it,I know I can thing. Johnny has been a inspiration on so many players SRV and Warren Haynes are two that come to mind right off the bat. If anything I believe Duane may have been influenced by Johnny in the form of inspiration before Johnny may have been influenced by Duane. Johnny Winter has put out so many good records (the only bad one I can think of is his last live record.) Any person who loves the blues has to dig Johnny Winter. Alas Johnny's health here recently has taken a turn for the worse. Keep Johnny in you prayers. Johnny Winter is as much the blues as BB, Freddie, Albert, Muddy, Howlin', Elmore and certainly SRV. He is a real nice guy to boot. ROCK ON!!!

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/6/2005 at 06:18 PM
I agree.....

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True Peach



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  posted on 4/7/2005 at 03:31 PM
Same here -- real nice post Charlesinator.

 

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  posted on 4/8/2005 at 01:16 AM
quote:

First of all Johnny Winter is an American treasure
quote:


Yes, I agree. Nobody said that Johnny isn't a great player! Johnny is fantastic!!!

quote:

Duane's comment about Johnny is not a put down but a compliment in the form of inspiration, a sort of if he can do it,I know I can thing. Johnny has been a inspiration on so many players SRV and Warren Haynes are two that come to mind right off the bat. If anything I believe Duane may have been influenced by Johnny in the form of inspiration before Johnny may have been influenced by Duane.
quote:


We don't know if Johnny was a real inspiration for Duane, I think Jesse Ed Davis was a real inspiration for him...
I know for sure that Johnny usually came to the ABB's rooms to play some licks with them...
I don't know if Johnny influenced peoples like SRV & Warren......I never read nothing about Johnny from Stevie, and I know that Duane is at the very top of the list of influence for Warren....
A great Johnny's influence can be heard on Eric Sardinas....

 

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  posted on 4/8/2005 at 11:07 AM
Johnny also got his name out there to the public before FE/Layla, & etc. Duane's comments regarding Johnny sound "spot on" to me, when a relatively unknown player is trying to make a name for himself(and Johnny got his name out there before Duane). Santana made similar comments right at Mike Bloomfield, although Carlos later apologized to him for it.

I really don't see/hear Duane "influencing" Johnny at all, & vice versa. You really don't kiss the arses of your contemporaries, & not just in music.

It's funny with this whole slide thing.... lately, many of the publications make it seem like Duane was the ONLY guy doing it back then. Listening to the Yardbirds & Butterfield the past few days, & I can swear that there's some great slide playing on those albums.

I came across this book at a Border's recently...



Pretty interesting read. As with many books similar to this, some of the writing/info is spotty, but they had a few gems included from Delaney's recollection of Motel Shot. As many of us know, Duane contributed some tasty work to this recording, including the "guitar case." He also confirmed that Duane & Gram Parsons were there for "Sing My Way Home", which was pretty cool. Wish we knew more on who was there for what on each song.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 4/8/2005 at 01:17 PM
I don't hear direct Johnny influence on Duane, but Johnny was pretty hot as a blues rocker in the late '60s, and Duane was completely aware of the scene and Johnny in particular. I agree with you guys who say that Johnny served more as an inspiration rather than as someone to cop licks from.

I got my first Johnny album in the middle '70s, after I'd already been getting into Duane for a couple years, and I played the heck out of it. This was a reissue of Austin, Texas, which Johnny had actually recorded in 1968. I worked in the Sound & Photo Dept. of a Target Store (semi-discount semi-superstore), where we liked to keep the music going. I'd sometimes stick an 8-track of Austin, Texas, into the dept.'s stereo and listen to it for, like, 2 or 3 hours in a row.

Anyway, this album is pretty hardcore blues for a blues rocker. Check out these tracks:
* Muddy Waters: "Rollin' and Tumblin' "
* Muddy: "Tribute to Muddy" (actually, mostly "Catfish Blues" with lots of guitar soloing)
* J. Moore (?): "I Got Love If You Want It" (didn't the Yardbirds do this?)
* Sonny Boy Williamson: "Help Me"
* B.B. King: "It's My Own Fault"
* Howlin' Wolf: "Forty-four"
* Johnny: four tracks

This was recorded in 1968 and assumedly released that year. If so, Johnny was touring in support of Austin, Texas, when Duane took Jimmy Johnson to see Johnny at the Fillmore in January 1969, during the Aretha sessions in New York. As Jimmy recounted in the 1981.10 Guitar Player special issue on Duane:

"He says, 'Hey, let's run over to the Fillmore East to hear this new guy.' Johnny Winter was playing his premiere performance in New York, and the publicity was unreal."

Duane was aware and he was competitive. He would have known all about Johnny in a short time.

By the way, the bass player on Austin, Texas, is Tommy Shannon, so here's a direct Stevie Ray connection, although I don't know that Stevie directly copped Johnny's licks at all, either. (The drummer is Red Turner.)

 

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  posted on 4/8/2005 at 05:14 PM
quote:

..when a relatively unknown player is trying to make a name for himself(and Johnny got his name out there before Duane).
quote:


Eric Clapton got his name before Hendrix, but Jimi rewrote the sound of the electric guitar..... Being "THE FIRST" in order of time don't means much...


quote:

I really don't see/hear Duane "influencing" Johnny at all, & vice versa
quote:


It's just an opinion. To me Johnny became more adventurous after the Fillmore East recordings.

quote:

It's funny with this whole slide thing.... lately, many of the publications make it seem like Duane was the ONLY guy doing it back then. Listening to the Yardbirds & Butterfield the past few days, & I can swear that there's some great slide playing on those albums.
quote:


No, of course. Duane wasn't the only guy. But he rewrote the slide sound, I swear!



 

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  posted on 4/8/2005 at 07:51 PM
*Eric Clapton got his name before Hendrix, but Jimi rewrote the sound of the electric guitar..... Being "THE FIRST" in order of time don't means much...*

I never said being "the first" meant anything here. Thought this was about Duane's comments after seeing Johnny play? I did make a Santana/Bloomfield analogy in regards to that....

I won't disagree about the rewriting the "sound of the electric guitar" bit w/Jimi, but many people say the same thing about Clapton.

Anyway, I'm not keeping score here, on who did what & when, b/c it really isn't that important to me. I just don't see why "citing influences" is such a big deal here. If Johnny wants to say Duane influenced him on the slide, he'll tell it like it is when asked. Until then, it's all speculation.

*No, of course. Duane wasn't the only guy. But he rewrote the slide sound, I swear!*

It's like... you are arguing with a bunch of people that agree with you.

 

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  posted on 4/9/2005 at 01:20 AM
quote:

I won't disagree about the rewriting the "sound of the electric guitar" bit w/Jimi, but many people say the same thing about Clapton.
quote:

Yes, it's true, many people said that Clapton "was the man" (Duane for example), but its a fact that the importance of Hendrix can be easily heard in a thousand of guitarists, keyboardists and bassists...

quote:

Anyway, I'm not keeping score here, on who did what & when, b/c it really isn't that important to me. I just don't see why "citing influences" is such a big deal here. If Johnny wants to say Duane influenced him on the slide, he'll tell it like it is when asked. Until then, it's all speculation.
quote:


No finsky, I don't want to make comparisons between great guitarists....
I just want to know if Johnny said something about Duane!
If he was influenced by Duane or not, I don't know for sure, but it was just a point of discussion..

quote:

It's like... you are arguing with a bunch of people that agree with you.
quote:


I love speak about music and musicians, about influence and more.
If you agree with me, ok!
If you disagree.....ok!


 

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  posted on 4/12/2005 at 07:02 PM
LOL - like arguing with family.......
the last 50 years certainly have been interesting.......LOL

 

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  posted on 5/6/2005 at 07:12 AM
I can't believe no one mentioned this Johnny Winter/Allmans connection:
Who topped the bill at the Fillmore East on Mar. 12 & 13, 1971? Johnny Winter And!

 

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  posted on 5/6/2005 at 07:37 AM
I read an interview with Rick Derringer years ago in Creem Magazine (I think). In the article, Rick says that "Duane Allman once told me that I was one of the one's who gave him the idea of playing slide".

To me, Rick Derringer is one of least talked about, and most over looked players. He was also in the "Winter camp" (played with Johnny and Edgar together and apart). He's a pretty good slide player, too (listen to Steely Dan's "Show-biz Kids").

Any thoughts or comments on Rick Derringer's possible influence on Duane?

 

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People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/6/2005 at 10:51 AM
In the May/June, 1973 issue of Guitar Player, there was a Duane Allman tribute article by Richard Albero. It said that after Duane listened to the Folkways LP "Country Blues" he got the idea for "Statesboro Blues". The LP had Blind Willie McTell's original version, so this is Roots.

Later the piece quotes him as saying, "I heard Ry Cooder playing some time ago and I said 'That's for me.'" He goes on to say how everyone was apprehensive at first ("'Oh, no! He's getting ready to do it again!' Everybody just lowered their heads--start it off fast and get it over with.")

Meanwhile, according to http://www.angelfire.com/tn/LSkynyrd/allman1.html , "One good thing that did happen during the band's stay in Los Angeles was that Duane started to play slide guitar. There are several conflicting, though not necessarily contradictory, accounts of how it happened, but they all concur on one fact: that it was Georgia guitarist Blind Willie McTell's 'Statesboro Blues' that Duane first learned to play slide on.

"'I know exactly how Duane got into bottleneck,' said bassist Pete Carr, who roomed with Duane while he was in Hour Glass. 'We were in L.A. and saw Taj Mahal playing in a club. Jesse Ed Davis was with him, and they did "Statesboro Blues." Jesse played slide guitar and really turned Duane on.'"

Any other thoughts?

Billastro

[Edited on 5/10/2005 by Billastro]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 5/6/2005 at 11:05 AM
That sounds plausible. Derringer did say " one of the ones ..." though.

 

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People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 5/6/2005 at 06:02 PM
Derringer is great great player....check out the "McCoys" and a song called "Human Ball"..
very early and very excellent wah-wah work by Rick.....he can play in just about any style-
altho I never cared for the ass-shaking stuff....I was at the March 1971 FE run and saw them....i was a lucky guy.....

 

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  posted on 5/18/2005 at 05:51 PM
quote:


I read an interview with Rick Derringer years ago in Creem Magazine (I think). In the article, Rick says that "Duane Allman once told me that I was one of the one's who gave him the idea of playing slide".
quote:



Everything is possible.....

Jimi Hendrix was very interested about the Wha-Wha style of Eric Clapton (Tales of Brave Ulysses).

Anyway we know who was better!

 

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  posted on 5/27/2005 at 11:19 PM
Johnny was a one man gang- Ive seen him live many times- Duane was better with a band- but by himself Johnny was devistating. Im going to see him in NYC in august at BB Kings Bar and Grill.
 

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  posted on 5/30/2005 at 12:05 PM
quote:


Johnny was a one man gang- Ive seen him live many times- Duane was better with a band- but by himself Johnny was devistating.
quote:



There are just a few tracks in which Duane played like a "one man soloist", it's impossible to me to do a comparison.
I can only say that Duane was better like "band player" and like session man...

It's my opinion...

 
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