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Author: Subject: get out the checkbook (and sell a kidney)

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 12/22/2009 at 06:28 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1960-GIBSON-LES-PAUL-STANDARD-BURST-OHSC-TAGS_W 0QQitemZ180446553287QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item2a0373e4c7

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/22/2009 at 07:15 PM
wott a cherry


 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/23/2009 at 07:47 AM
A nice guitar like that sitting unplayed for almost 50 years. What a waste! Now it will go to some other collector who will pay way too much only to have it sit for anouther 50 years unplayed.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 12/23/2009 at 08:06 AM
quote:
A nice guitar like that sitting unplayed for almost 50 years. What a waste! Now it will go to some other collector who will pay way too much only to have it sit for anouther 50 years unplayed.


"So that is what's become of rock and roll? A guitar behind glass on a rich man's wall ..."

- Vanilla sky

I wonder whose guitar that was? Fine axe, but for that kind of money I could pick up a house full of fine, PLAYABLE guitars. "Playable" in the sense that I would be afraid to take that thing out of the case anywhere! Some Japanese collector will probably end up with it. This instrument should be played!

Also - somebody please explain to me why and how a 1960 or 1959 is so superior to Les Paul's built in more recent years. I just want to know!

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/23/2009 at 10:49 AM
quote:
quote:
A nice guitar like that sitting unplayed for almost 50 years. What a waste! Now it will go to some other collector who will pay way too much only to have it sit for anouther 50 years unplayed.


"So that is what's become of rock and roll? A guitar behind glass on a rich man's wall ..."

- Vanilla sky

I wonder whose guitar that was? Fine axe, but for that kind of money I could pick up a house full of fine, PLAYABLE guitars. "Playable" in the sense that I would be afraid to take that thing out of the case anywhere! Some Japanese collector will probably end up with it. This instrument should be played!

Also - somebody please explain to me why and how a 1960 or 1959 is so superior to Les Paul's built in more recent years. I just want to know!




I don't believe it's real. It's the worst time (during a recession) to bring it to the market place.

No one in the early '60's thought these would ever be worth anything. There are stories of kids going into music stores in 63 and 64 looking for Beatles guitars (Gretsches and Rickenbackers) being offered new 59/60 Les Pauls for $250- 300. The likelyhood of some one putting one away, and resisting the urge to sell it in the '70s when it was worth $10,000, is slight.

The vintage guitars are believed to be "better" because there is more hand work, they had more time to spend in the crafting of each instrument, and, most importantly, evreyone is nuts.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/23/2009 at 12:09 PM
Who's buying kidneys?

 

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  posted on 12/23/2009 at 01:38 PM
quote:
... The vintage guitars are believed to be "better" because there is more hand work, they had more time to spend in the crafting of each instrument, and, most importantly, evreyone is nuts.


Do they sound $320,000 better?

 

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Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/23/2009 at 03:08 PM
quote:
quote:
... The vintage guitars are believed to be "better" because there is more hand work, they had more time to spend in the crafting of each instrument, and, most importantly, evreyone is nuts.


Do they sound $320,000 better?


".......everyone is nuts"!!!!!!

Not to me.

 

Peach Bud



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  posted on 12/27/2009 at 10:01 AM

There is only a limited number of these guitars out there, so there is stigma attached to them. Also, this guitar and vintage instruments like it are only worth what the actually sell for. Some rich a**hole really wanted one, paid a lot of money, and set a precedence. So now the sellers use that precedence to set the value of all future sales of these instruments, and somebody's always rich and foolish enough to buy it, thus solidifying the precedence, and so on.

I agree with you all. These instruments are wonderful, they aren't built like this any more, and they should be played. It's ridicules that ANY guitar should cost as much as a house.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 12/27/2009 at 11:00 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
A nice guitar like that sitting unplayed for almost 50 years. What a waste! Now it will go to some other collector who will pay way too much only to have it sit for anouther 50 years unplayed.


"So that is what's become of rock and roll? A guitar behind glass on a rich man's wall ..."

- Vanilla sky

I wonder whose guitar that was? Fine axe, but for that kind of money I could pick up a house full of fine, PLAYABLE guitars. "Playable" in the sense that I would be afraid to take that thing out of the case anywhere! Some Japanese collector will probably end up with it. This instrument should be played!

Also - somebody please explain to me why and how a 1960 or 1959 is so superior to Les Paul's built in more recent years. I just want to know!




I don't believe it's real. It's the worst time (during a recession) to bring it to the market place.

No one in the early '60's thought these would ever be worth anything. There are stories of kids going into music stores in 63 and 64 looking for Beatles guitars (Gretsches and Rickenbackers) being offered new 59/60 Les Pauls for $250- 300. The likelyhood of some one putting one away, and resisting the urge to sell it in the '70s when it was worth $10,000, is slight.

The vintage guitars are believed to be "better" because there is more hand work, they had more time to spend in the crafting of each instrument, and, most importantly, evreyone is nuts.


Not just the hand made part. The woods they were using are not available anymore and the seasoning they did to tone wood back then is a lot different then it is now, along with material used while building them. I own any early 50's goldtop and I own a 2001 R8...The difference between the way they sound is huge. The old goldtop is much more complex and much more open sounding. The R8 is a great guitar and will age nicely. but the goltop is in another league. I was lucky enough to get this guitar before the prices went crazy. It's the only guitar I would never think of selling

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2009 at 10:59 AM
It's like the price of old Martins...in the mid '70's Steven Stills got into a bidding war with Ibanez for a 1940's Martin. Drove the price way up. Set the market on it's ears.
 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2009 at 12:07 PM
A coworker and I were discussing the 'vintage' craze. He pointed out that plenty
of really crappy guitars were made in the 50s and 60s. All that hand work also made for more room for errors in construction! Those vintage pickups that people rave over were often hit or miss, for example, because they were hand wound. The thing is, the crap guitars are in landfills now, and the good ones kept. Thus the percentage of better guitars from the past is higher because the herd has been thinned over time.

In reality, the overall quality of mass-produced guitars has actually gone up over time, especially in the less expensive models. Computer controlled design and manufacture has eliminated a lot of the variables that created the less than wonderful 'student' line guitars of the past.
As far as the woods available, there are fine woods still available to make guitars, but it is scarcer, and more expensive. If you want a solid Brazilian rosewood instrument, you can get it, but it'll cost you.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 12/28/2009 at 03:24 PM
I'll agree they made some pretty awful guitars in the 50's and 60s but they didn't come out of the Gibson plant...or the martin plant....Those two companies have always made top of the line instruments. Were all of them great...no...but the intent was to make great guitars..back then they didn't have a real student line they left that up to other manufactures like Aria. I got my first guitar in 1963 it was a 25 dollar gut string guitar...I still have it and it still plays well but it's not a Gibson

Yes you can get a guitar with Brazilian rosewood but Gibson is not using it anymore nor are they using Honduras mahogany. And the wood they use now is not aged as long and it's not as old. I have nothing against the new Gibson guitars because I own 2 a 2001 R8 and a 2007 ES335 both are great guitars and the ones I gig with regularly. It's simple supply an demand there are only about 2500 58-60 les pauls made.....and who knows how many are left. Were all of them great...probably not but the majority of them are known to be exceptional instruments so they command a price I can't even rationalize but for those who buy them they can

[Edited on 12/29/2009 by goldtop]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2010 at 06:40 AM
quote:
A coworker and I were discussing the 'vintage' craze. He pointed out that plenty
of really crappy guitars were made in the 50s and 60s. All that hand work also made for more room for errors in construction! Those vintage pickups that people rave over were often hit or miss, for example, because they were hand wound. The thing is, the crap guitars are in landfills now, and the good ones kept. Thus the percentage of better guitars from the past is higher because the herd has been thinned over time.

In reality, the overall quality of mass-produced guitars has actually gone up over time, especially in the less expensive models. Computer controlled design and manufacture has eliminated a lot of the variables that created the less than wonderful 'student' line guitars of the past.
As far as the woods available, there are fine woods still available to make guitars, but it is scarcer, and more expensive. If you want a solid Brazilian rosewood instrument, you can get it, but it'll cost you.


Great points. I would add that part of the lower cost of entry level guitars is that they are
often manufactured overseas or south of the border. cheaper labor

The new overseas made PRS entry level guitars are very nice. using the same computer controlled
lathes as the built in the USA PRS. It's just that the USA models have the nicer woods and more experienced luthiers working with the final touches.

Speaking of computers has anyone had a refret done on these new laser leveling machines?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2010 at 11:04 AM
Nah. I haven't had the need yet. But I am thinking that when my Martin is due for one it would be a good candidate. The closest place is not too far from you and me John.

 

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