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Author: Subject: LOST FINALE.......

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 11:25 AM
quote:
Just does not seem rt. A Tuesday night and no Lost.


I'll be LOST without it.


 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 12:05 PM
quote:
Just does not seem rt. A Tuesday night and no Lost.


Well, there IS the grand finale of Dancing With The Stars! :shrug:

 
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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 01:55 PM
This is supposedly an email written by a writer from the show. very interesting stuff in here....take it or leave it...




I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet every time he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interfered by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Candidates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposely not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blatant.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs. Free-will. Science vs. Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soul mates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduism with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soul mates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spiritual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spiritual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character back-story, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spiritual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.


[Edited on 5/25/2010 by piper]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 02:19 PM
Thanks for that post, Piper. Nice read...

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 02:21 PM
^nice, 21000 posts!
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 02:37 PM
quote:
^nice, 21000 posts!
Ah, hadn't noticed...LOL. After 15K, there's nothing left to achieve, so I am just having fun at this point.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 04:31 PM
Thanks for posting piper.

I'm still lost.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 05:24 PM
Ok, but my nagging question is:

(and you can tell where my heart lies when it comes to canines)

If everything that happened on the Island is "reality", Jack dies on the Island with the dog (Vincent) lying next to him, what happens to Vincent? (Or was his fate explained in an earlier episode?)





[Edited on 5/25/2010 by chiliD]

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 07:40 PM
quote:
Ok, but my nagging question is:

(and you can tell where my heart lies when it comes to canines)

If everything that happened on the Island is "reality", Jack dies on the Island with the dog (Vincent) lying next to him, what happens to Vincent? (Or was his fate explained in an earlier episode?)






Easy.

All dogs go to heaven.






























Heh heh.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/25/2010 at 08:19 PM
" I don't believe in a lot of things, but I do believe in duct tape."

 

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  posted on 5/26/2010 at 12:54 AM
There's a lot up for debate with the show, but I think it's pretty clear that what happened on the island happened. The only thing that wasn't real (well, at least in the real world) was the flash-sideways of Season 6. That was the place they all met before going to the afterlife.

I'm fairly certain that the shoe in the tree was Christian's shoe. Even if it wasn't Christian's, it was hanging in that tree when the show began and can be seen in the first scenes of the series. Some people have suggested that the footage of the plane wreckage during the credits was a sign that they were all dead, but that's not how I saw it. To me, the plane wreckage was like the Egyptian statue, the Temple, and the Dharma bunkers - it was essentially proof of what happened on the island. Like those signs of earlier life and death on the island, future people that come to the island will wonder about the plane wreckage in the same way that we and the characters on the show wondered about the people that came before them. In his conversation with Jack in the church, Christian made it clear that everything that happened on the island was real. I don't think the images of the plane undo that.

And I imagine Vincent the dog will go back to Rose and Bernard.

 

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  posted on 5/26/2010 at 03:58 PM
quote:
There's a lot up for debate with the show, but I think it's pretty clear that what happened on the island happened. The only thing that wasn't real (well, at least in the real world) was the flash-sideways of Season 6. That was the place they all met before going to the afterlife.

I'm fairly certain that the shoe in the tree was Christian's shoe. Even if it wasn't Christian's, it was hanging in that tree when the show began and can be seen in the first scenes of the series. Some people have suggested that the footage of the plane wreckage during the credits was a sign that they were all dead, but that's not how I saw it. To me, the plane wreckage was like the Egyptian statue, the Temple, and the Dharma bunkers - it was essentially proof of what happened on the island. Like those signs of earlier life and death on the island, future people that come to the island will wonder about the plane wreckage in the same way that we and the characters on the show wondered about the people that came before them. In his conversation with Jack in the church, Christian made it clear that everything that happened on the island was real. I don't think the images of the plane undo that.

And I imagine Vincent the dog will go back to Rose and Bernard.


I like your viewpoint on the images of the beach during the credits. I, like many, thought that meant that everyone died when the plane crashed. However, your idea that shows all are now dead after life on the island makes a little more sense to me.

All I can say is that I was very pleased with the finale. It was an emotional roller coaster that made in the end made me happy I enjoyed the journey of Lost.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2010 at 08:53 AM
quote:
OK this is how I see it.....

Everything we saw on the island, from fake mom, Jacob and his bro, to the Others, the Dharma Initiative, Des and Penny, Oceanic 815, Ajira flight, all of it was real, and all of it happened.

But the ATL was not real. As each of the survivors who bonded on the show died (and they all died at various times, some 4 seasons ago, some after Jack), they created this ATL as a way to wait for each other to go where ever they are going together.

So I believe, that we witnessed the moment that Jack died, but we didn't see everyone die, because some people lived longer than Jack. For example, I believe that Frank and company left the island and either died soon after because they ran out of gas, or they survived and went on to live long lives.

It's just that in that church, time didn't matter. Jack thinks he just arrived, but there is no time in that room. People died after him that were already in the room only because that church was Jack's perspective of where they were together.

The heart of the island is the balance of life. Good, evil. Light, dark. Heaven, hell. Without it humanity as we know it ceases to exist. Desmond was the only one who take it offline long enough for Jack and Kate to kill MIB and keep him from entering the rest of the world. Jack was the one who had to give his life to reset it. Jack dies. Everyone else gets to live out their lives until they meet again in the afterlife . Then they pass into the light...

maybe


[Edited on 5/24/2010 by nypeachhead]


I totally agree with this, Dave. Also Piper's post clears up some questions I had.

I had 9 episodes on my DVR including the retrospective and finale. Due to work and other things I was unable to see them, then I decided to record all the remaining shows and watch them in one sitting. That was yesterday. 9-10 hours of LOST. It was great!!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2010 at 12:01 PM
And here, all your unaswered questions are answered. Or at least most of them.

http://www.movieline.com/2010/05/rebutting-losts-questions.php?page=all

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2010 at 10:16 PM
Oldest son finally got caught up and saw the finale today.

He was ok with it, needed some loose ends tied up.

Who didn't???

Heh heh.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/31/2010 at 08:11 PM
my horoscope today

CAPRICORN (Dec. 22-Jan. 19). A little rough for the wear, you need an indulgence to lift your spirits and get you back on your feet. Whether it's chocolate or catching up on "Lost," do something just plain fun.

 

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