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Author: Subject: EAC offset value

Zen Peach





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  posted on 10/30/2003 at 03:42 PM
a few weeks back, someone offered up a b&p and asked that you you give him the offset value of your EAC program so he knew his show would be properly reproduced.

I didnt want in on that offer, but i did wonder what the hell he was talking about....i'm no newbie to trading, but i'm not an expert when it comes to EAC either....(however, it is the only program i use to extract) . The dude implied (in my opinion anyway) that if you didnt know your offset value you must not know what the hell you are doing.

i pm'd him and he never responded....so i ask you guys:
what the hell is an EAC offset value ? and how do i determine mine?

[Edited on 10/30/2003 by LinnieXX]

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 10/30/2003 at 03:56 PM
Follow these simple instructions to set your EAC offset:
a) Extract any disk (call it original) in secure mode (always, always, always secure mode).

b) Burn that disk (call it copy).

c) Extract copy.

d) Select option "Compare Wav" (Under Tools). Select a track from the original, then from the copy.

e) It will compare and give either a missing or extraneous sample #. This is your offset #. If the original is missing samples or the copy has extraneous (repeated) samples the offset is a positive number.If the copy is missing samples or the original has extraneous (repeated) samples the offset is a negative number.

f) Enter the offset # in the Sample Offset field (Under EAC, Drive Options, Offset/Speed).

g) Repeat steps a-d. If it's set correctly, there will be no missing or extraneous samples - meaning, you made an exact duplicate.

You're good to go.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/30/2003 at 04:05 PM
your the best David! thanks

i have to find the thread that i was asking about....i thought the dude wanted it beforehand.

hey goliath...you use EAC to burn too?

 

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  posted on 10/30/2003 at 07:40 PM
Here's a link on setting up EAC, including the offset as Goliath described...


http://pages.cthome.net/homepage/eac/setup.htm

 

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  posted on 10/31/2003 at 12:01 AM
LinnieXX,

That was me....no demeaning intentions here. I started to put together a list of hints & links to help everyone out, but life got in the way and I haven't finished yet. Still plan to do it. Denza's link is a great start and I'll see if I can add to it.

Hang in there,

Ron

 
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  posted on 11/1/2003 at 02:11 PM
I followed the steps outlined above the results keep saying "different samples" along with the length of the track. I extract using using an internal CD drive and burn using an external CD burner. Do I have to do the extracting/burning with the same drive in order to set the offset?

 

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  posted on 11/1/2003 at 03:12 PM
Lord Now I have to worry about what Country the CD is made in and what the offset is and the source data. YIKES
 
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  posted on 11/1/2003 at 03:18 PM
Let me see if I can offer some info to help others get set up. Bottom line is that in order to take advantage of EAC, you need to set it up properly. IMO, if you don't do this, it'll still be better than other extraction methods, but not near as good as it should be. There's roughly two areas where you need to configure things:

1.) Under EAC>Drive Options >Extraction Method, the preferred method is 'Secure mode...' with only the Accurate Stream feature checked (if your drive supports it...use the two buttons at the bottom of the panel to detect your drive capabilities). Avoid both 'drive caches audio data' and '...retrieving C2 error info...'. I once knew what the C2 was, but don't have the info handy, just know you want to avoid it. Definitely avoid 'Paranoid' mode under Secure, and the Synchronized and Burst modes.

2.) Under EAC>Drive Options >Offset/Speed, set up the appropriate values. EAC can be used for both reading and writing discs, but the latter only if your drive supports it. Setting up for read only is easier, but you can add writing later by switching to 'use combined read/write offset sample correction'. My drive (a Plextor 40x) has the ability to write w/ EAC, but I started with a drive that didn't and became comfortable with CDRWin for burning, so I haven't switched yet.

There are two ways to determine your offset value

A.) Use 'Detect read sample offset correction' option on the Offset/Speed panel with one of the discs found here: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/eac3.html#CDList. This is a Refence CD list, a list included with the EAC application. If you have one of the listed CDs and run the 'Detect..' function it will tell you what it is and actually set the value for you. Note that the ID value (inner ring of the disc) on your release of the CD has to match the one they have listed. I lucked out and used my Sgt. Peppers CD.

B.)
i.) Rip a disc with EAC to produce WAVs with your offset set to 0.
ii.) Burn an audio CD from the WAVs
ii.) Re-rip a track or two from this new CD (still with Offset 0) to a different location
iv.) From EAC, use Tools>Compare WAVs...
The Comparison will return a message saying there's missing samples. If the message says 'the original file is missing samples or the new file has extraneous samples', the offset is a positive number. In contrast, if it indicates 'the new file is missing samples or the original file has extraneous samples', the offset is a negative number.
v.) Go back to EAC>Drive Options >Offset/Speed and set number of missing samples to the offset value, with a plus or minus sign dependng on the message from iv.) above.
vi.) Repeat steps i.-v. and you should end up with zero samples missing.
Clearly, option A is much easier, but it's dependent on you having one of the Reference CDs.

All of the above is just a summary of what I've learned over time from the links below. Check them out for yourself and feel free to add to my babbling:

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/eac3.html

http://pages.cthome.net/homepage/eac/articles.htm
http://pages.cthome.net/homepage/eac/setup.htm
http://pages.cthome.net/homepage/eac/setup1.htm

http://www.chrismyden.com/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=Elite_DAE/ea c&file=faq#offset
http://www.chrismyden.com/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=Elite_DAE/ea c&file=index

http://www.ping.be/satcp/tutorials.htm
http://www.ping.be/satcp/eacoffsets00.htm#-

http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184 29

http://www.cdrfaq.org/


Happy extracting!!


Ron



PS - I know some of what I wrote duplicates Goliath post, but I had this written partially for a while and felt sharing in full was the best way to go. But really, I just want to be like David!!

[Edited on 11/1/2003 by RonB]

 
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  posted on 11/1/2003 at 05:08 PM
Just my opinion, but this isn't hard to do and David and Ron both have step by step instructions that are easy to do.
 

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  posted on 3/10/2004 at 05:44 PM
^

Thought this had some good info taht some might find helpful.

[Edited on 3/10/2004 by Denza]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2004 at 06:06 PM


Download.....



Exact Audio Copy V0.95 prebeta 5

eac095pb5.zip - (1748kb ZIP) file - last changed on 9.3.04

Main Download Location Europe Download ZIP
EAC Homepage Mirror 1 Europe Download ZIP


To download additional languages, or to help to translate EAC into your own Language, please have a look here.



For AccurateRip support in EAC read here.





If you encounter problems with this version you should step back to v0.85b4, 0.9pb11 or 0.9pb4



Exact Audio Copy V0.85 beta 4

eac085b.zip - 494kb ZIP file - last changed on 02.09.99

EAC Homepage eac085b.zip - 494kb Download

Exact Audio Copy V0.9 prebeta 11

eac09pb11.zip - 834kb ZIP file - last changed on 27.6.01

EAC Homepage eac09pb11.zip - 834kb Download


Exact Audio Copy V0.95 prebeta 4

eac095pb4.zip - 1748kb ZIP file - last changed on 18.11.03

EAC Homepage eac095pb4.zip - 1748kb Download


Which version is best to download?

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2004 at 06:45 PM
quote:
Which version is best to download?


The one that works the best for you!

Seriously, I have found on my XP machine that EAC can be temperamental at times, namely on extraction - when using the "Copy CD" function, I find it to be pretty hit & miss at getting my CD-Rom drive,

a) to spin up
b) to recognise track boundaries (the drive will spin & spin & spin w/out success)

Some of the problems on b) may well be down to disc quality (and it helps to switch around the Gap Detection method at times), and some of it may be down to driver issues - I have read something about this problem with EAC and XP, though have never done anything about it; does anyone have the lowdown on this?

Until I get the driver issue resolved, I've got 2 different versions on my machine - where one doesn't work, the other will!

 
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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2004 at 06:45 PM
If you get as far as installing the EAC software and set the options correctly, it is so easy to set the offsets.

You need a factory made CD and blanks and it takes about 10 minutes. Just a bit to set it so it is perfect, why stop at 99% ?

 

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  posted on 3/10/2004 at 09:01 PM
Taken from one of the links that RonB posted:

quote:
...Because the tracks already have a 355 samples offset this results in a total offset of 325 samples, the so-called combined read/write offset:

combined read/write offset = read offset - write offset = -325

In English that means that the copy of the CD has a 325 samples offset shift to the original. On writing no data was lost, but since the last 355 samples were already missing the copy is not perfect. Due to the offset the track indices are also positioned wrong and every track starts 325 samples too late. Thus Track 1 starts with 325 samples of the original CD's pregap (silence) and misses its last 325 samples. Track 2 has Track 1's 325 missing samples at it's beginning. Track 3 is missing its last 355 samples due to the read offset but during play 30 samples of the Lead-Out (silence) are added.

Now before you start to panic you should know that 30, 325 and 355 samples are very short times. To get an idea about the real length in time of a sample use following formula:

time = samples / 44,100

Thus 355 samples is 0.00805 seconds, or 8.05 milliseconds, 325 samples is 0.00737 seconds or 7.37 milliseconds and 30 samples is 0.00068 seconds or 0.68 milliseconds. The offset is a time shift of the data and thus it does not affect the audio quality in any way!

(Emphasis mine)

It is only a problem for TAO. It is not an issue for DAO unless you have your knickers in a twist over 1/10000th of a second of missing whatever at the beginning or end of your DAO shows.

Hmm. People are losing sleep over something that DOESN'T MATTER. That quote was taken directly from one of the links provided by Ron. It pisses me off that I have to go thru all this crap to set up my burner so I can trade with the big boys.

I would bet a paycheck that 90% of the traders out there don't do it, even those that say they do and insist that everybody else does as well. I'm betting that 100% of the traders out there couldn't tell you whether or not the discs you sent them have been extracted/burned with the correct offset if you sent them without it.

Unlike jitter errors, synch errors, burning on the fly errors, TAO and the other myriad of issues that this hobby is infected with, this is, in the end, a NON-ISSUE.

This is a great reason why .shn and .flac are such a God send. The whole issue of extraction doesn't exist, offsets and all, and I don't have to worry about ARN's getting me all wired up.

[Edited on 3/11/2004 by finklewicz]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2004 at 11:55 PM
quote:
quote:
Which version is best to download?


The one that works the best for you!

Seriously, I have found on my XP machine that EAC can be temperamental at times, namely on extraction - when using the "Copy CD" function, I find it to be pretty hit & miss at getting my CD-Rom drive,

a) to spin up
b) to recognise track boundaries (the drive will spin & spin & spin w/out success)

Some of the problems on b) may well be down to disc quality (and it helps to switch around the Gap Detection method at times), and some of it may be down to driver issues - I have read something about this problem with EAC and XP, though have never done anything about it; does anyone have the lowdown on this?

Until I get the driver issue resolved, I've got 2 different versions on my machine - where one doesn't work, the other will!


I run XP and I've found that if I highlight all the tracks then on the action tab I use "copy selected tracks" option. I then after the extraction is finished I use the "catalog selected tracks" and put them in a folder that I can send to my burning program. Since I started doing this I haven't (knock on wood) had these problems.

 

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  posted on 3/11/2004 at 12:23 AM
IMO, since the setup of EAC is a one-time process, it's not that much of a hassle. Considering the hours and hours of tunes that I get in return from trading, it's worth the 20-30 minutes (if that) to set it up. My descriptions above were meant to help those that wanted to use EAC, but found it difficult. Nowhere in my post did I degrade those who do not. Jereman, you're absolutely correct when you say that the loss of 7 milliseconds at the end of a DAO disc will not kill the show. The benefit of EAC, instead, is that when used, it damn near eliminates the pops and clicks introduced by other extracting apps.

I've been preaching the benefits of the SHN, and then FLAC, formats here for at least 3 years, but it has generally fallen on deaf ears. I don't think it's because of a flat-out rejection of using those formats, but rather a combination of technological apprehensions/limitations, sometimes cost (increased # of discs, so increased $) when archiving, and, quite frankly, for personal preference.

I'm fortunate enough to have gotten about 70% of my shows in lossless SHN or FLAC, largley from download, so the number of trades where I have to worry about what the other person used for extraction is kept to a minimum. From there, my traditional trades are generally with folks who I've traded with before who have sent me clean shows in the past, REGARDLESS of whether they used EAC or not. I generally don't know what they used, in fact, because to me, it's the quality of the end result that counts.

off my box now, boss,


Ron

 
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