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Author: Subject: health care bill

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 10:24 AM
On the health care deal, it is my responsibility to take care of myself and my family, and my responsibility to decide whether or not I want insurance for myself and my family. Not the government’s responsibility to provide me with insurance. Or make me buy insurance and then fine me if I don't. After all, this is the United States of America, the land of choice. Too bad we do not have that freedom in this case anymore. What is next?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 10:26 AM
quote:
On the health care deal, it is my responsibility to take care of myself and my family, and my responsibility to decide whether or not I want insurance for myself and my family. Not the government’s responsibility to provide me with insurance. Or make me buy insurance and then fine me if I don't. After all, this is the United States of America, the land of choice. Too bad we do not have that freedom in this case anymore. What is next?


Breakfast?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 11:16 AM
quote:
On the health care deal, it is my responsibility to take care of myself and my family, and my responsibility to decide whether or not I want insurance for myself and my family.


If you are currently having this decision crisis, I would suggest that you arent very responsible at all.

quote:
Not the government’s responsibility to provide me with insurance. Or make me buy insurance and then fine me if I don't.


Do you drive a car?

quote:
After all, this is the United States of America, the land of choice. Too bad we do not have that freedom in this case anymore. What is next?


Indeed youre right. This is the USA and we are the last 1st world nation to finally get health care for our population. If you dont like the idea of government healthcare, fine, dont you or your family dare take part in medicare, medicaid or veterans benefits.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 11:39 AM
Thanks guys, but I have insurance for myself and my family. Always have and always will, and I have car insurance too! Lol! And life, dental, motorcycle and insurance on our art hanging on the walls. And a medical flex-spending account, imagine that.

But it is my choice, not because the government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance. It will be just like welfare I imagine. If you are on welfare, how can you afford insurance? Maybe I am too much like my parents, I was raised that you work to take care of yourself and family, not work to pay taxes so the government can take care of those who will not work. This is not why I pay federal and state taxes. Maybe I don't think deep enough like some.

[Edited on 3/23/2010 by Wayne]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 11:41 AM
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 11:48 AM
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 11:48 AM
If someone who can afford to have insurance and doesn't gets in an accident and has a million dollars in medical bills and then declares bankruptcy, who ends up paying that bill? Either the hospital or doctors who pass the cost on to everyone else or the government (i.e. taxpayers). I know that being forced to buy something leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth (it does mine), but in reality this makes the system more fair. Notice that the bill has a high up front cost but ends up saving money in the long run. Only time will tell if this bill turns out to be a good thing, but the system is completely broke now and I'm willing to give this a shot.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 11:52 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.


I have no problem helping someone I don't know. That's really what it boils down to, doesn't it?

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 11:58 AM
I need to ruin my ignorance on medicaid. need to to do some reading up on it. I was looking at some pie charts from the CBO yesterday and the chart for 2020 still had slice for the uninsured. The bulk of the pie slice was due to illegal aliens not having insurance. My wife is an RN in OB, some mothers use hi-jacked SS numbers and are usually identified, but what happens after that? Does medicaid pay for the costs and we end up with an anchor baby? The illegal immigration issue needs to be addressed sooner than later. It's a big impact on health care issues and a lot of others.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:00 PM
quote:
I need to ruin my ignorance on medicaid. need to to do some reading up on it. I was looking at some pie charts from the CBO yesterday and the chart for 2020 still had slice for the uninsured. The bulk of the pie slice was due to illegal aliens not having insurance. My wife is an RN in OB, some mothers use hi-jacked SS numbers and are usually identified, but what happens after that? Does medicaid pay for the costs and we end up with an anchor baby? The illegal immigration issue needs to be addressed sooner than later. It's a big impact on health care issues and a lot of others.


Immigration, education and financial reform are up next.

You think the Tea Partiers were upset last weekend...

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:00 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.


I have no problem helping someone I don't know. That's really what it boils down to, doesn't it?


Yeah it does, we volunteer at our local church mission and we donate what we can money-wise, (which these days seems to be less and less because of rising costs and taxes), so I am not against helping out, but living in South Carolina, you just cannot imagine the amount of fraud and laziness that goes on everday in this state when it comes to public assistance. Sorry, I just see it way too much every day.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.


Huh? Who exactly do you think is fighting our wars right now? By and large it's kids from underprivileged backgrounds. We're talking about tens of millions of uninsured people, it's impossible and plain ludicrous to try and make such a generalization about such a massive group of citizens.


Great insurance and college tuition come out of serving your country. I have several friends who took that path, they are now going to college after serving and enjoying the fruits of the GI Bill. Which they earned by serving. Their choice too.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.


I have no problem helping someone I don't know. That's really what it boils down to, doesn't it?


Yeah it does, we volunteer at our local church mission and we donate what we can money-wise, (which these days seems to be less and less because of rising costs and taxes), so I am not against helping out, but living in South Carolina, you just cannot imagine the amount of fraud and laziness that goes on everday in this state when it comes to public assistance. Sorry, I just see it way too much every day.


I work in a very large hospital myself. I see alot of things too.

Y'know, gazillions upon gazillions of dollars have gone everywhere, all over the world, for all different kinds of things, who knows what to who knows where. In the last ten years how much have we spent on other societies as compared to our own? Who cared about all that money? No one really, but oddly enough, the ones who really didn't care happen to be the exact same people who freak out when we actually do want to spend it on...gasp! Each other! Those people willl mock and taunt and call others communists, etc., all the while wrapping themselves in the flag talking about how patriotic they are.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Wayne. But, if helping each other live longer and healthier isn't patriotic, then just what in the hell is?

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:23 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.


I have no problem helping someone I don't know. That's really what it boils down to, doesn't it?


Yeah it does, we volunteer at our local church mission and we donate what we can money-wise, (which these days seems to be less and less because of rising costs and taxes), so I am not against helping out, but living in South Carolina, you just cannot imagine the amount of fraud and laziness that goes on everday in this state when it comes to public assistance. Sorry, I just see it way too much every day.


I work in a very large hospital myself. I see alot of things too.

Y'know, gazillions upon gazillions of dollars have gone everywhere, all over the world, for all different kinds of things, who knows what to who knows where. In the last ten years how much have we spent on other societies as compared to our own? Who cared about all that money? No one really, but oddly enough, the ones who really didn't care happen to be the exact same people who freak out when we actually do want to spend it on...gasp! Each other! Those people willl mock and taunt and call others communists, etc., all the while wrapping themselves in the flag talking about how patriotic they are.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Wayne. But, if helping each other live longer and healthier isn't patriotic, then just what in the hell is?


Good point, can't argue with that at all. Unfortunately for some of us (as in me, not you), it is easy to speak out of both sides of our mouths. Hard to get past some things you have seen all of your life though.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:27 PM
quote:
quote:
Great insurance and college tuition come out of serving your country. I have several friends who took that path, they are now going to college after serving and enjoying the fruits of the GI Bill. Which they earned by serving. Their choice too.


OK, and your point is? You said that people who can't afford health insurance wouldn't serve their country. I'm wondering what people you're talking about exactly.


No point really I guess, maybe if more people who were down-on-their-luck would consider the military, it could be a way to improve their quality of life. And for the ones who choose to be down-on-their-luck, it could be a way for them to support themselves istead of us supporting them. Granted we pay the military salaries and support with our taxes, but that is a much better way to spend it than by giving it away as "public assistance."

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:30 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.


I have no problem helping someone I don't know. That's really what it boils down to, doesn't it?


Yeah it does, we volunteer at our local church mission and we donate what we can money-wise, (which these days seems to be less and less because of rising costs and taxes), so I am not against helping out, but living in South Carolina, you just cannot imagine the amount of fraud and laziness that goes on everday in this state when it comes to public assistance. Sorry, I just see it way too much every day.


I work in a very large hospital myself. I see alot of things too.

Y'know, gazillions upon gazillions of dollars have gone everywhere, all over the world, for all different kinds of things, who knows what to who knows where. In the last ten years how much have we spent on other societies as compared to our own? Who cared about all that money? No one really, but oddly enough, the ones who really didn't care happen to be the exact same people who freak out when we actually do want to spend it on...gasp! Each other! Those people willl mock and taunt and call others communists, etc., all the while wrapping themselves in the flag talking about how patriotic they are.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Wayne. But, if helping each other live longer and healthier isn't patriotic, then just what in the hell is?


Good point, can't argue with that at all. Unfortunately for some of us (as in me, not you), it is easy to speak out of both sides of our mouths. Hard to get past some things you have seen all of your life though.


There's always going to be the lazy, the entitled, the work the system types. Always. But that doesn't mean that everyone finds themself in a bad situation by choice...there are plenty of people that lost their jobs in the last couple years who, if they had their choice, wouldn't be in the situation they are in.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:31 PM
quote:
Breakfast?


You are showing your west coast...its lunch time here!!

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:31 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
But it is my choice, not because they government told me too. And trust me, you will still be paying for everyone else's government-required insurance.


I'd much rather help pay for the well-being of my fellow countrymen over paying for them to go off and die in nation-building wars.


You wouldn't have to worry about that because the same ones we will be paying insurance premiums for would not go and fight for our/their country anyway.


I have no problem helping someone I don't know. That's really what it boils down to, doesn't it?


Yeah it does, we volunteer at our local church mission and we donate what we can money-wise, (which these days seems to be less and less because of rising costs and taxes), so I am not against helping out, but living in South Carolina, you just cannot imagine the amount of fraud and laziness that goes on everday in this state when it comes to public assistance. Sorry, I just see it way too much every day.


I work in a very large hospital myself. I see alot of things too.

Y'know, gazillions upon gazillions of dollars have gone everywhere, all over the world, for all different kinds of things, who knows what to who knows where. In the last ten years how much have we spent on other societies as compared to our own? Who cared about all that money? No one really, but oddly enough, the ones who really didn't care happen to be the exact same people who freak out when we actually do want to spend it on...gasp! Each other! Those people willl mock and taunt and call others communists, etc., all the while wrapping themselves in the flag talking about how patriotic they are.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Wayne. But, if helping each other live longer and healthier isn't patriotic, then just what in the hell is?


Good point, can't argue with that at all. Unfortunately for some of us (as in me, not you), it is easy to speak out of both sides of our mouths. Hard to get past some things you have seen all of your life though.


There's always going to be the lazy, the entitled, the work the system types. Always. But that doesn't mean that everyone finds themself in a bad situation by choice...there are plenty of people that lost their jobs in the last couple years who, if they had their choice, wouldn't be in the situation they are in.


Agreed

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:33 PM
At this point in our nation's history with the wars going on right now....I wouldn't suggest anyone join the military for any reason.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 12:55 PM
quote:
At this point in our nation's history with the wars going on right now....I wouldn't suggest anyone join the military for any reason.


I gotta disagree with you on this one. I think that anyone who wants to serve our country should do so. I also highly recommend that those that think that war is a good thing join the fight. Don't let others pay the ultimate price for something you want if your not willing to do it yourself.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 01:39 PM
quote:
If you are born into extreme poverty, you can work as hard as anyone ever could, but you still face incredibly long odds of becoming wealthy. Likewise, if you're born into great wealth, you can go a lifetime without working hard and never have to worry for a moment about putting food on the table, or covering the costs of doctor's visits. The bottom line is that each individual case is different, and your chances of achieving financial "success" in life (at least to the point where you don't have to apply for government aid) are not at all directly linked to how hard you work.


Thank you.

This is what a lot of people here don't seem to get.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 01:57 PM
Since we keep bringing auto insurance into this discussion I'll make two points:

1. I don't think it's a fair comparison because no one is required to have auto insurance to cover THEMSELVES. You only have to cover damage you do to other persons or property. And if you do damage to your self/property, there's no mandatory fix like an ER visit. So you can't make the argument that if you're uninsured for your own account, someone else picks up the tab. If you don't carry collision on your car, and you wreck, you're SOL.

2. Auto insurance, or the coverage most of us opt for, is designed to insure against the catastrophe. You get in a fender bender, there's a big deductible, your rates go up if you make a claim, and so you may pay it out of pocket. But, have a big wreck, you put it through.

Health insurance, under most plans, covers all sorts of ailments, minor and major, as well as preventive medicine. In fact, there is a built in incentive to use it more (to recoup your premium) rather than less (as with an auto policy). Rather than just covering big ticket stuff (what was called "major medical") it's now become a payment system as much as "insurance".

Regardless of how we might feel about Obamacare, it's just not a fair comparison to keep saying we require people to have auto insurance, so it's ok to require health insurance too.

This isn't a post condemning the health care bill, it's just that I don't buy the auto insurance argument.

Also, covering those 32 million people, or whatever the number is, means that total usage of the system is going to go up, and I doubt that's in the projections. I'd bet they're simply assuming that all the uncompensated care now provided will simply be covered care in the future, at the same dollar amount. That's highly unlikely as the current system makes it hard for people without insurance to get care, it's inconvenient to go to the ER for well baby care, checkups, colds, the flu etc. By making it more accessible, we're guaranteeing the usage is going to go up.

Again, I'm not arguing for against, just saying that I question some of the assumptions, this one in particular.

Where do I sign up for my medical marijuana prescription and where do I get it filled with no copay????

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 02:06 PM
quote:
quote:
At this point in our nation's history with the wars going on right now....I wouldn't suggest anyone join the military for any reason.


I gotta disagree with you on this one. I think that anyone who wants to serve our country should do so. I also highly recommend that those that think that war is a good thing join the fight. Don't let others pay the ultimate price for something you want if your not willing to do it yourself.


Most people think war is a bad thing but sometimes necessary and appropriate. I don't think it's fair to say anyone who supports a war thinks war is a good thing.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 02:17 PM
quote:
Since we keep bringing auto insurance into this discussion I'll make two points:

1. I don't think it's a fair comparison because no one is required to have auto insurance to cover THEMSELVES. You only have to cover damage you do to other persons or property. And if you do damage to your self/property, there's no mandatory fix like an ER visit. So you can't make the argument that if you're uninsured for your own account, someone else picks up the tab. If you don't carry collision on your car, and you wreck, you're SOL.

2. Auto insurance, or the coverage most of us opt for, is designed to insure against the catastrophe. You get in a fender bender, there's a big deductible, your rates go up if you make a claim, and so you may pay it out of pocket. But, have a big wreck, you put it through.

Health insurance, under most plans, covers all sorts of ailments, minor and major, as well as preventive medicine. In fact, there is a built in incentive to use it more (to recoup your premium) rather than less (as with an auto policy). Rather than just covering big ticket stuff (what was called "major medical") it's now become a payment system as much as "insurance".

Regardless of how we might feel about Obamacare, it's just not a fair comparison to keep saying we require people to have auto insurance, so it's ok to require health insurance too.

This isn't a post condemning the health care bill, it's just that I don't buy the auto insurance argument.

Also, covering those 32 million people, or whatever the number is, means that total usage of the system is going to go up, and I doubt that's in the projections. I'd bet they're simply assuming that all the uncompensated care now provided will simply be covered care in the future, at the same dollar amount. That's highly unlikely as the current system makes it hard for people without insurance to get care, it's inconvenient to go to the ER for well baby care, checkups, colds, the flu etc. By making it more accessible, we're guaranteeing the usage is going to go up.

Again, I'm not arguing for against, just saying that I question some of the assumptions, this one in particular.

Where do I sign up for my medical marijuana prescription and where do I get it filled with no copay????


I think it is a fair comparison, because the government is requiring you to purchase insurance, in both instances. When they first started making cars, no one had automobile insurance. That insurance became available and people bought it. At some point, the government stepped in a started requiring people to buy insurance. That seems to me to be the exact same thing that is happening now.

 

____________________


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2010 at 02:24 PM
For the last few months, we have heard over and over again that the vast majority of Americans did not support this bill. It seems that alot of people I know or come across in various places didn't really let their thoughts be known until after it passed.

Here's the thing...where's this vast majority? I'd say for the bill/against the bill ratio of people I've come across is probably at a solid 10:1.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 
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