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Author: Subject: Top 10 Provably Untrue Things Tea Partiers Believe In:

Peach Extraordinaire





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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 03:16 PM

1. The Birth-Certificate Conspiracy.

2. Death Panels.

3. Obama Is A Muslim/Socialist/Fascist.

4. Obama Is Going To Take Away Our Guns.

5. Obama Is Raising Our Taxes.

6. Fascism Is A Left-Wing Phenomenon.

7. Global Warming Is A Hoax.

8. Two Million People Were at 9/12 March.

9. 16,000 New IRS Agents.

10. The Tea Parties Are a Non-Partisan, Broad Grassroots Movement.

That really is the definition of insanity.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 03:21 PM
1,2,3,6,8,9,and 10 are complete BS 4, has a chance as dem's have always been after gun control and their confiscation... 5 will happen someone has to pay for all this $hit bailouts ,buybacks, medical bill etc etc. and 7 is still unproven either way for a fact..

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 03:37 PM
4. Obama Is Going To Take Away Our Guns.


Nonsense! Obama does not want to take away our guns. He has much more important
issues to handle. I've read a lot about gun control, but I honestly haven't heard anyone
say they want to take our guns.

It is a lie put forth by the NRA to increase their membership and protect gun sellers.
It would be impossible to do anyway, at least in our generation.

I think it will take two more generations before people get smart and insittute meaningful gun control.
We will all be gone by then so don't worry about it!

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 03:39 PM
And number 9 should read 60,000 new IRS agents.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 03:41 PM
9. 16,000 New IRS Agents.

This has not been proposed by Obama. More right-wing propaganda.

But, what is so bad about it. 16,000 accountants would have jobs.
They could go after the cheaters, and they should. I pay my taxes and
I believe everyone else should pay theirs.

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 06:10 PM
quote:
9. 16,000 New IRS Agents.

This has not been proposed by Obama. More right-wing propaganda.

But, what is so bad about it. 16,000 accountants would have jobs.
They could go after the cheaters, and they should. I pay my taxes and
I believe everyone else should pay theirs.


Yeah, but this stupidity was in connection with the health care debate. Apparently, these IRS agents were to help enforce...something. Past that, the ever un-funny Mallard Filmore comic repeated this lie twice that I know of. Nothing like being subtle when you are pushing disinformation.

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 06:21 PM
quote:
quote:
1,2,3,6,8,9,and 10 are complete BS 4, has a chance as dem's have always been after gun control and their confiscation... 5 will happen someone has to pay for all this $hit bailouts ,buybacks, medical bill etc etc. and 7 is still unproven either way for a fact..


When has Obama ever said a word about taking away your guns? He's never said that at all.


Welllllll, depends on what your definition of 'take away' is. He has voiced his intent, and plans to support a nationwide bill to eliminate legal concealed carry of firearms citing the ever-popular excuse of more shootings. I teach concealed carry classes and the false spectre of people shooting themselves or others dead in the streets is just a load of shait all the way around. Its simply not supported by the facts or the evidence of years of the concealed carry law being on the books here in Texas (he used my state as a prime example of whats wrong with concealed carry) claiming that some people that shouldnt have had licenses issued received them. Thats a failure of the licensing process which of course should have caught these people. In the states defense, they have tightened the process considerably since those days.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 06:39 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
1,2,3,6,8,9,and 10 are complete BS 4, has a chance as dem's have always been after gun control and their confiscation... 5 will happen someone has to pay for all this $hit bailouts ,buybacks, medical bill etc etc. and 7 is still unproven either way for a fact..


When has Obama ever said a word about taking away your guns? He's never said that at all.


Welllllll, depends on what your definition of 'take away' is. He has voiced his intent, and plans to support a nationwide bill to eliminate legal concealed carry of firearms citing the ever-popular excuse of more shootings. I teach concealed carry classes and the false spectre of people shooting themselves or others dead in the streets is just a load of shait all the way around. Its simply not supported by the facts or the evidence of years of the concealed carry law being on the books here in Texas (he used my state as a prime example of whats wrong with concealed carry) claiming that some people that shouldnt have had licenses issued received them. Thats a failure of the licensing process which of course should have caught these people. In the states defense, they have tightened the process considerably since those days.


Eliminating concealed carry is not taking away guns. Period.


What? Um, thats exactly what it is. If I am Obama, I am eliminating your ability to defend yourself outside your home after it had already been granted by the state. Im not particularly concerned about this law as I think the 10th Amendment would be a serious roadblock to his intentions.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 07:03 PM
quote:


Wait a minute. In one thread you complain about a state overriding federal law, and in this one you don't like Obama overriding a state law.


Uh, yeah. Theres a reason why the states have rights separate from federal law. You can support both states rights and federal law, you know.

quote:
He isn't taking away guns. Period. Play semantics if you wish, but he is not denying gun ownership.


Its not semantics in any way. If the state grants you the permission to carry a firearm for your personal protection (and the protection of others) and a law is introduced at the federal level to forbid that action, you are most certainly having your ability to defend yourself taken away. Now, it might be different had you never been given the privilege of carrying a gun in the first place but this isnt the case.

quote:
Tell me someting, why is this country the only one whose citizens feel the need to arm themselves against their neighbor? What part of the social structure did we fail?


The part where some people dont follow the law and see you and me or others as potential victims to exploit. If you dont agree with being able to defend yourself at that level, you have a choice not to carry. Others believe they have that right and approximately 40 other states in our nation agree. If all I was worried about was my 'neighbor' I wouldnt be arming myself. The same could be said for my students.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 09:07 PM
I sure don't feel safe when so many are carrying concealed weapons.
It should be extremely limited.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 09:09 PM
quote:
I sure don't feel safe when so many are carrying concealed weapons.
It should be extremely limited.


It is extremely limited. The people that legally carry concealed firearms have gone through criminal background checks, training and a licensing procedure. They are the good guys. The ones you should be worried about are the criminals that are carrying concealed weapons with the intent to do YOU harm.

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 09:11 PM
It has become easier to get a concealed weapon permit.

I am concerned when ordinary citizens can carry a concealed weapon.
I doubt they are all good guys.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 09:13 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
1,2,3,6,8,9,and 10 are complete BS 4, has a chance as dem's have always been after gun control and their confiscation... 5 will happen someone has to pay for all this $hit bailouts ,buybacks, medical bill etc etc. and 7 is still unproven either way for a fact..


When has Obama ever said a word about taking away your guns? He's never said that at all.


Welllllll, depends on what your definition of 'take away' is. He has voiced his intent, and plans to support a nationwide bill to eliminate legal concealed carry of firearms citing the ever-popular excuse of more shootings. I teach concealed carry classes and the false spectre of people shooting themselves or others dead in the streets is just a load of shait all the way around. Its simply not supported by the facts or the evidence of years of the concealed carry law being on the books here in Texas (he used my state as a prime example of whats wrong with concealed carry) claiming that some people that shouldnt have had licenses issued received them. Thats a failure of the licensing process which of course should have caught these people. In the states defense, they have tightened the process considerably since those days.


Eliminating concealed carry is not taking away guns. Period.


What? Um, thats exactly what it is. If I am Obama, I am eliminating your ability to defend yourself outside your home after it had already been granted by the state. Im not particularly concerned about this law as I think the 10th Amendment would be a serious roadblock to his intentions.


I agree with Otie here.

Eliminating concealed carry doesn't mean you can't own a gun, it just means you can't have it on your person in public.

Texas has some of the most common sense gun laws in the country.

I lived there before the carry law was enacted.

Even then, you could possess a handgun (concealed) if you were:

1. Carrying a "large" sum of money
2. Traveling outside your county of residence
3. At your place of business

I had a Barretta .380 in a shoulder holster every night that I went to work managing a nightclub.

One of my duties was making the bank deposits, sometimes $10K to $20K for a busy weekend.


 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 09:16 PM
I also believe you'd have fewer VA Tech shootings if more people were allowed to legally carry.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 09:51 PM
Framing the issue as (insert politician's name here) is going to take your guns is completely off base. The issue is gun rights and as discussed here infringing upon one's ability to legally carry a concealed firearm is a hit on gun ownership rights. Just as limiting or expanding the types of firearms one can own, how or if they must be registered, the process requirements in which one buys guns and ammo can all go either way where one has more rights or less. Those people who go around saying Obama is going to take your guns can't be taken seriously. But if it is President Obama, or VP Biden there are indicators that some gun ownership restrictions could be in play under this administration. It's the watering down of the rights, not the confiscation of guns that is the real issue and a believable cause for concern to some.

So that is #4 on the list. Most of those things on that list I just have no interest commenting on.

But #7 for instance...for me it isn't that I think global warming is a hoax, or don't believe that man might have an impact in accelerating a naturally occurring event. For me, it has always been how much of our way of life and our economy should be sacrificed for the amount of change we can have and through all of our efforts to change this or that, will those results just be negated by another country (India, China) environmental's impact. So beyond the polarizing man made global warming exists / doesn't exist issue, there is reasonable opposition to what should be done about it. Same thing here as with the gun thing, framing reasonable concern over the actions taken to fight global warming as thinking the whole thing is a hoax doesn't represent the issue accurately.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 10:23 PM
quote:
Texas has some of the most common sense gun laws in the country.

I lived there before the carry law was enacted.

Even then, you could possess a handgun (concealed) if you were:

1. Carrying a "large" sum of money
2. Traveling outside your county of residence
3. At your place of business/


Not to argue a dead law, but this is wholly incorrect. There was never a provision for carrying a large sum of money..it was an officer discretion issue. In otherwords, if you were carrying a 'large sum of money' and it was discovered you were carrying a gun, you *might* be able to talk your way out of an arrest due to the reasonableness of the situation to the officer and the facts of the situation.

Traveling in Texas has never really been defined by the legislature. Again, it was an arbitrary decision at the time for the officer to determine and has only recently been loosely defined to include an overnight stay, with more than 3 counties in distance. The reason for the defining of traveling is because our handgun possession law has changed to allow a concealed weapon in a vehicle.

And finally, you could possess a gun at your home or business, no problem. There was never a provision to allow for concealed or open carrying until our legislature actually passed the concealed carry law. In otherwords, if you were carrying a handgun at that time, you were unlawfully carrying a weapon unless you were a peace officer as defined by statute.

My favorite arrests were always with people carrying a gun telling me they had a permit for it long before the permit law was ever even thought of!

[Edited on 4/28/2010 by SquatchTexas]

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 10:29 PM
quote:
So, in almost every other country, people don't carry guns and don't fear being on the streets.


Do they have the same crime rate or record of violence that we do?

quote:
In this country, people live in fear and arm themselves.


Fear? I dont think so. I typically ask my students why they want to take the concealed handgun licensing course and I dont think Ive ever heard fear as a motivator. Ive heard many times though that they feel they should be prepared, be able to adequately defend themselves, they feel its their personal responsibility not to have to rely on the police which are typically reactive in their approach as opposed to proactive.

quote:
You can't explain why that is. As a law enfrcement professional, do you feel the police are doing a good job? Why do we need to carry guns and the rest of the world doesn't?


Whether the police are doing a good job or not is irrelevant. There will never be enough police to be there when you need one, to walk beside you to your car late at night etc. Its incumbent upon yourself to take steps to protect yourself and ensure that your safety is your responsibility. Speaking of fear, why does the thought of legal, trained citizens carrying a firearm for defense bother you so much? If I were you, I would be far more worried about those that seek to do you harm of which, the people you are concerned about, are not a part of.

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 10:44 PM
quote:
quote:
Texas has some of the most common sense gun laws in the country.

I lived there before the carry law was enacted.

Even then, you could possess a handgun (concealed) if you were:

1. Carrying a "large" sum of money
2. Traveling outside your county of residence
3. At your place of business/


Not to argue a dead law, but this is wholly incorrect. There was never a provision for carrying a large sum of money..it was an officer discretion issue. In otherwords, if you were carrying a 'large sum of money' and it was discovered you were carrying a gun, you *might* be able to talk your way out of an arrest due to the reasonableness of the situation to the officer and the facts of the situation.

Traveling in Texas has never really been defined by the legislature. Again, it was an arbitrary decision at the time for the officer to determine and has only recently been loosely defined to include an overnight stay, with more than 3 counties in distance. The reason for the defining of traveling is because our handgun possession law has changed to allow a concealed weapon in a vehicle.

And finally, you could possess a gun at your home or business, no problem. There was never a provision to allow for concealed or open carrying until our legislature actually passed the concealed carry law. In otherwords, if you were carrying a handgun at that time, you were unlawfully carrying a weapon unless you were a peace officer as defined by statute.

My favorite arrests were always with people carrying a gun telling me they had a permit for it long before the permit law was ever even thought of!

[Edited on 4/28/2010 by SquatchTexas]


This was over 20 years ago, and I checked through my HPD security people as to the legality of it before I brought my pistol to work.

Got the same responses from our Harris Co. deputies.

Texas still leads the country in common sense gun laws.

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 10:59 PM
quote:
The idea of a civilization where many people feel the need to arm themselves because they fear everyone around them is normal in your mind. And it is fear, nothing but fear that causes this. You play a lot of semantics on this subject. Your idea of ccivilization is different from mine.


Im not the one who is afraid, apparently.

I certainly do not carry my gun because of fear. I carry it because I know Im the only one responsible for my own safety and Im fully aware of what can and does happen.

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 11:00 PM
quote:
This was over 20 years ago, and I checked through my HPD security people as to the legality of it before I brought my pistol to work.

Got the same responses from our Harris Co. deputies.

Texas still leads the country in common sense gun laws.




Im not surprised...it was perfectly legal to carry a gun at work/home. :-)

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 11:24 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The idea of a civilization where many people feel the need to arm themselves because they fear everyone around them is normal in your mind. And it is fear, nothing but fear that causes this. You play a lot of semantics on this subject. Your idea of ccivilization is different from mine.


Im not the one who is afraid, apparently.

I certainly do not carry my gun because of fear. I carry it because I know Im the only one responsible for my own safety and Im fully aware of what can and does happen.


And having the need to carry a gun for "your own safety" is perfectly normal. In your mind, this is civilization at its finest. And you don't see this as any indictment of our society.


Civilzation at it finest? Not quite. And I do see it as an indictment of our society. I fully support anyones right to self defense. Why dont you? Also, you never answered my question regarding why you seem to fear legal, trained, law abiding citizens carrying firearms who have no intention of harming you or anyone else.

[Edited on 4/28/2010 by SquatchTexas]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 11:29 PM
Arizona just passed a law, where you NO LONGER need a C.F.L. to carry a concealed handgun. just a background check.

 

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  posted on 4/27/2010 at 11:55 PM
I used to have a permit to carry a gun but I gave it up years ago. After I didn't carry the weapon any longer. I realized it had given me a false sense of security as to what I was capable of doing. I won't ever carry a gun again and truth be told, I don't know as how I want to live in a society so afraid of each other that they need to be ready to kill or be killed. I think I'd rather just go ahead and 'move' on if push comes to shove.

 

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  posted on 4/28/2010 at 12:02 AM
quote:
I used to have a permit to carry a gun but I gave it up years ago. After I didn't carry the weapon any longer. I realized it had given me a false sense of security as to what I was capable of doing. I won't ever carry a gun again and truth be told, I don't know as how I want to live in a society so afraid of each other that they need to be ready to kill or be killed. I think I'd rather just go ahead and 'move' on if push comes to shove.


Look at the recent situation in NYC where the guy was killed trying to defend someone else. Had he been legally armed (or the original victim), do you think it would have turned out differently? If people choose not to defend themselves, thats their business and more power to them, but many choose not to be victims or to be in a position to help others. We have a ton of examples where had someone been legally armed, things would have been very different.

[Edited on 4/28/2010 by SquatchTexas]

 

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  posted on 4/28/2010 at 12:06 AM
quote:
quote:
I used to have a permit to carry a gun but I gave it up years ago. After I didn't carry the weapon any longer. I realized it had given me a false sense of security as to what I was capable of doing. I won't ever carry a gun again and truth be told, I don't know as how I want to live in a society so afraid of each other that they need to be ready to kill or be killed. I think I'd rather just go ahead and 'move' on if push comes to shove.


Look at the recent situation in NYC where the guy was killed trying to defend someone else. Had he been legally armed (or the original victim), do you think it would have turned out differently?


Maybe - but if both start firing, innocent bystanders could easily be caught in the crossfire, especially on a busy city street, something that wouldn't happen if neither was packing.

Not trying to be be a smartass, just trying to offer a worst-case.

 

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