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Author: Subject: If it's not financially worth it for the ABB to release new material then why....

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 10/12/2010 at 06:33 PM
(thats what I hear from some members on this board, that it is more of a financial reason)

....do they're peers from around that era still do? Cheap Trick, Deep Purple to name a few.
Those two really can't be selling all that much more than the ABB. Purple might since they are still a big draw outside this country. So is it a poor financial decision
for those bands also?


I think the Doobie Brothers just put one out and so did BTO. Frampton still
puts releases out . So what makes all of those bands/musicians different than the ABB?

I know this argument comes up from time to time on here about ABB and new material, maybe I just need someone to enlighten me so I can understand it. Maybe there is more to it, I don't know that much about the music business.
I ,like a few, would love to see new stuff with this talent they have, but I am not holding my breath


Do you have to be like a Miley Cyrus, Beyonce, or any othe big pop star to make
it financial worth while to make a new cd ? I don't know. I guess if you sell a million plus
then it would be more of an incentive.

My opinion on the ABB is that they do not have the time anymore to be a "band" , so to say.To hang out ,gell, be cohesive and write music.
They are late in the game in they're careers
so to speak, slowing down ,not touring as much, and other members have other projects/bands they are involved in. I understand that.
Like I said IMHO,I think the financial part has nothing to do with it.
Derek has a studio, so that should not be an excuse.

I think it comes down to them wanting to be creative as the ABB and make ABB music.
Maybe I put that wrong, maybe lack of having the time. Do they have interest in doing that for themselves(ABB)?
THats probably what drives the other bands
that I mentioned. They are still a " band" that hangs out and writes and etc and they
have a creative passion to make music and are not tied up in other projects, no intentions of slowing down and etc.


I am still suprised that some artist have not started leaning more towards internet release only material in this day and age of the computer/ internet and so forth. I myself perfer the CD/album format. I like to have that hard copy of a collection off songs that have certain characeteristics that represent body of work from that artist.
They could release something as an album only download.

[Edited on 10/12/2010 by jszfunk]

[Edited on 10/12/2010 by jszfunk]

[Edited on 10/13/2010 by jszfunk]

 

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  posted on 10/12/2010 at 06:57 PM
I never bought the financial excuses the side benifits of having new material getting some airplay publicity etc are worth it.

The problem is they are not a Band and have not been for years just a collection of individuals that get together and play and they play damn fine don't get me wrong they just do not get together sit around hang out and develop new material. It seems Gregg can only go so far and needs help to complete songs. Warren and Derek and Otiel seem to save things for themselves and the Percusionist do not write.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 06:02 AM
quote:
the Percusionist do not write.


(Dons hard hat and runs for cover in case Butch sees this...........)


 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 11:28 AM
The answer is not clear cut and many might not like the reasons but they are valid.

First and foremost before finacials are involved, they need the material. Since regrouping in 89, Warren has been a big part of the material writing with Gregg, Dickey and others. After rejoining the group, Warren was counted on the write the vast majority. While doing HTN, he also did a number of Mule releases and wrote the majority of Phil Lesh's album. The well ran dry or at least began drying up. The truth is I think Warren released too much and the quality suffered because of it. Very few people will say that they prefer 'newer" Warren material. Most would agree that since Life Before Insanity, no Mule album has come close in terms of material. No shame in that at all. Artists can not keep up a pace like that and be fresh.

Then as far as sales go, people would be amazed at how low the ABB's sales are. Not just HTN but also the albums with Dickey made in the 90s. That was with some radio "hits" and major exposure and record company backing and promotion. From a money standpoint it really is not worth the effort or at least for the ABB it isn't.

They can play a Beacon stand and make far more in two weeks than they would from any release and they would have to record and promote any release taking far more time. I have posted their earning previously on this forum for a Beacon run and it is the ABB's cash cow.

Then what do they really stand to gain from a release? Would it increase their popularity? No. Big a big hit? No. Prove that they are song writers? No because besides Warren none of them are very strong at writing. Have to search back pretty far for Gregg's writing days and even then he often co-wrote material. So an ABB album would pretty much just be another Warren project. Would add nothing to their legacy.

Sure people say that Derek has a studio but that doesn't mean it is free. A fair amount of investment is involved and there would still be a cost factor for sure.

Why do others do it? A number of reasons and each is probably valid and also involves some amount of trying to keep it going. DP for instance, tours the world on a regular basis and uses the album as an excuse to not just be doing another oldies tour. When in fact that is exactly what they are doing. Sure they may play 1 or 2 new songs but they will get dropped at the end of the tour. Has DP added anything to their legacy with these albums? No. They will still come out and play Smoke On The Water.

Cheap Trick - they released that way because the normal avenue is dried up for them. They have been an opening act since the 80s. Truth is that their headlining days were relatively short.

Most of the "pop" artists mentioned in the initial post do not make anything off the albums. But they do make a killing of Hannah Montana bachpacks and lunch boxes. The ABB probably would not sell many of those.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 01:03 PM
At this point why do you even care about new studio releases. Anything new they play will be available through the live recordings which are superior to studio work IMO. I always like hearing new songs but could care less if they ever record in the studio again.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 01:19 PM
Deep Purple can put an album out now and again because unlike the ABB they tour properly. Not just up and down the East coast of the USA.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 01:27 PM
Well - the ABB sold over 500K copies of Back Where it All Begins by 1997. I'm sure it's added another 100K+ since then. Hitting the Note sold about 200,000....the dropoff was not surprising considering how much the radio and CD markets had changed in the 8.5 years between releases.

And I disagree about the ABB's latter day material being superior live. There may be a track or two, but the definitive tracks for most of HTN are the studio versions, to these ears. And Gregg was amazing on HTN. Hard to replicate that live.

And you won't get to just choose to hear the new ABB material live, because it won't be written (or an idea even given to the ABB) if they don't decide to do another record.

I would argue that HTN did help the ABB's legacy. It gave them a lot of good press on a release without Dickey Betts, which proved a lot. They are still benefitting from positive press and live reviews based on proving they could put out a solid album with the current band.

I just couldn't imagine being in a band with Derek & Oteil for over a decade and not be dying to record a more than a single record with them. I suspect that if Gregg & Butch decided they wanted to do it right now, we'd have one in 2011. Everyone else would jump on the idea.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 04:24 PM
quote:
Well - the ABB sold over 500K copies of Back Where it All Begins by 1997. I'm sure it's added another 100K+ since then. Hitting the Note sold about 200,000....the dropoff was not surprising considering how much the radio and CD markets had changed in the 8.5 years between releases.



Well - BWIAB sales were aided by dump bins in a major way. I bought serveral and gave them to friends. Don't count on that extra 100K or any figure even close. Your sales figures for HTN are very generous. I don't have the figures in front of me but I don't think they have even come close to that. Sanctuary did not really have any artists moving those sorts of numbers with a few exceptions. The truth is that they signed "oldies" acts and discarded metal bands and those type of sales were not expected.


quote:
I would argue that HTN did help the ABB's legacy. It gave them a lot of good press on a release without Dickey Betts, which proved a lot. They are still benefitting from positive press and live reviews based on proving they could put out a solid album with the current band.



Not sure how you think it helped their legacy? To do that they would have had to release something that shook up the music industry on the leval of the Fillmore or Brothers and Sisters. They were not even close. Doesn't mean that it was bad, just didn't have the effect that you feel it did. In actuality, their ticket sales continued to decline which actually indicates the opposite from a business and industry standpoint. Truth be told many people outside of the immediate ABB fanbase never even knew it was released. It did not help that they were with a faltering label but it was the only one interested. Even within their fanbase, many Dickey supports never embraced the album so they didn't even have full support from their fans.

Still benefitting from HTN's release? Not sure how they are benefitting from an album that they barely play songs from anymore?

Not trying to be negative. Just answering the question posed. It does not mean that those releases were bad or that any future one would be. Just means that their peak has passed.

Also the most important fact is the material. Warren is tapped out and has to have his own interests in mind. Same goes for Derek and Oteil and the honest answer is that neither is a very prolific writer anyway.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 05:14 PM
quote:
thats what I hear from some members on this board, that it is more of a financial reason)

....do they're peers from around that era still do? Cheap Trick, Deep Purple to name a few.

Those two really can't be selling all that much more than the ABB. Purple might since they are still a big draw outside this country. So is it a poor financial decision
for those bands also?

I think the Doobie Brothers just put one out and so did BTO. Frampton still
puts releases out . So what makes all of those bands/musicians different than the ABB?



The ABB aren't willing to do the touring to support a new CD. I know the Doobies, Cheap Trick, ect tour quite a bit more than the ABB. And truth be told, new CDs for most bands from the "classic rock" era don't really make any money. I would dare say many of these bands would be "HAPPY" to break even on the sale of their new CDs.

Touring is where the money is at and even that is starting to fall off for many of the "classic rock" bands and artists, including the ABB. The ABB has a repectable sized and reliable fan base but beyond those fans, there really isn't that much interest in the ABB, certainly not enought to justify the time and expense to record a new CD (and that would be hoping that the ABB has some "strong material" to record).

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 05:46 PM
Hmmmmmm ... now ... err ... I don't really feel up to the task ... awww hell. CanadaMule makes some very valid points. Couldn't agree more with his asscessment of Warren Haynes, but of course ... in Warren's defense you d what you do to get better. You want to be a better writer - you write. Warren has always had the ability to write a good song and just about every Mule disc since The Deep End I & II has at the very least a couple of good ones IMO. Warren could probably use an honest producer.

It's funny but why isn't ths same argument here about the ABB used for the Mule? Recording a new CD shouldn't be a financial reason. Heck there is sh*t out there for home recording that rivals studio quality. They could as Butch has proposed (and Dickey vehemently opposed) that they start their own label for relesing the new stuff for nominal investment. Unfortunately with Butch in or near charge of the deal could've ended up like Flying Frog Records. Distribution is the biggie. Find someway to kiss Wal Mart's ass and you're rolling in dough because you don't have to shell out anything to anybody else.

The real deal is that you release new music because that's what you do. What you have to do to stay true to your original dream. To be honest it just seems like the particulars are too lazy and apethetic (sp?) about the whole thing and that is a shame.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 06:45 PM
quote:
It's funny but why isn't ths same argument here about the ABB used for the Mule? Recording a new CD shouldn't be a financial reason.


The trouble is that the main writer for both bands is the same guy.

Plus the urge to write and record has to be there and has not been with the ABB for a long time. Hotlantatim mentioned that HTN was an accomplishment without Dickey. Recording without Dickey may have been the motivating factor which means that Dickey was still partly responsible.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2010 at 08:00 PM
quote:
Deep Purple can put an album out now and again because unlike the ABB they tour properly. Not just up and down the East coast of the USA.


LOL what touring west of Darien Lake every 5 years isn't enough for ya?

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 07:54 AM
quote:
At this point why do you even care about new studio releases. Anything new they play will be available through the live recordings which are superior to studio work IMO. I always like hearing new songs but could care less if they ever record in the studio again.


I have not seen or heard about anything new coming out in live recordings, unless it was a "new " cover.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 04:18 PM
quote:
The answer is not clear cut and many might not like the reasons but they are valid.

First and foremost before finacials are involved, they need the material. Since regrouping in 89, Warren has been a big part of the material writing with Gregg, Dickey and others. After rejoining the group, Warren was counted on the write the vast majority. While doing HTN, he also did a number of Mule releases and wrote the majority of Phil Lesh's album. The well ran dry or at least began drying up. The truth is I think Warren released too much and the quality suffered because of it. Very few people will say that they prefer 'newer" Warren material. Most would agree that since Life Before Insanity, no Mule album has come close in terms of material. No shame in that at all. Artists can not keep up a pace like that and be fresh.

Then as far as sales go, people would be amazed at how low the ABB's sales are. Not just HTN but also the albums with Dickey made in the 90s. That was with some radio "hits" and major exposure and record company backing and promotion. From a money standpoint it really is not worth the effort or at least for the ABB it isn't.

They can play a Beacon stand and make far more in two weeks than they would from any release and they would have to record and promote any release taking far more time. I have posted their earning previously on this forum for a Beacon run and it is the ABB's cash cow.

Then what do they really stand to gain from a release? Would it increase their popularity? No. Big a big hit? No. Prove that they are song writers? No because besides Warren none of them are very strong at writing. Have to search back pretty far for Gregg's writing days and even then he often co-wrote material. So an ABB album would pretty much just be another Warren project. Would add nothing to their legacy.

Sure people say that Derek has a studio but that doesn't mean it is free. A fair amount of investment is involved and there would still be a cost factor for sure.

Why do others do it? A number of reasons and each is probably valid and also involves some amount of trying to keep it going. DP for instance, tours the world on a regular basis and uses the album as an excuse to not just be doing another oldies tour. When in fact that is exactly what they are doing. Sure they may play 1 or 2 new songs but they will get dropped at the end of the tour. Has DP added anything to their legacy with these albums? No. They will still come out and play Smoke On The Water.

Cheap Trick - they released that way because the normal avenue is dried up for them. They have been an opening act since the 80s. Truth is that their headlining days were relatively short.

Most of the "pop" artists mentioned in the initial post do not make anything off the albums. But they do make a killing of Hannah Montana bachpacks and lunch boxes. The ABB probably would not sell many of those.


Thanks for your response and explanation. Good insight and perspective given.
I would like and ABB lunch box though!!!

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 04:25 PM
quote:
Hmmmmmm ... Warren could probably use an honest producer.




I have thought it would be pretty cool to see a Gov't Mule or Warren cd produced by John Paul Jones.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 05:48 PM
Neil Young has the best attitude of all: if you don't have any new music, you have nothing.

Playing an amazing show is nothing for the Allmans; they are the best band in the land and can jam circles around anyone.

It's the lack of original material that has led me away from this band. The onus is on Gregg, really: he's written anything

Even his new solo album (which is still a "believe it when I see it" proposition) is a collection of old blues standards - chosen by T-Bone Burnett, no less! While it'll be great to see something new from him in stores, I can't bear the idea that he hasn't released an album since 2003, and yet hasn't come up with at least 5-6 new tunes for an album. That's seven years! It just strikes me as... well, as cowardly.

Especially so since so much blame was put on Dickey for the "dark cloud" he cast over the band. Dickey was blamed for the shows becomming stale, and for Gregg not writing any newer material. Well, that's 10 years! What is to blame for the lack of his muse now?

Loyal fans have stayed with the band throughout a lot of tumult since 2000, and I think we need to be rewarded with some new music. What I want to hear is an expression of where Gregg is now, musically.

Otherwise, I'd sooner hear nothing at all.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 06:05 PM
interesting well the current excuse is it is not financially woth it but it is b.s. and a cop out like you said but people are buying into it.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 06:16 PM
quote:
I think the Doobie Brothers just put one out and so did BTO. Frampton still
puts releases out . So what makes all of those bands/musicians different than the ABB?


The Doobie Brothers, BTO & Frampton....."Classic" rocks bands who killed it on AM RADIO in the 70-80s. It's that simple. EVERYONE knows about these guys.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 07:38 PM
I just think they are winding down.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 07:39 PM
quote:
quote:
I think the Doobie Brothers just put one out and so did BTO. Frampton still
puts releases out . So what makes all of those bands/musicians different than the ABB?


The Doobie Brothers, BTO & Frampton....."Classic" rocks bands who killed it on AM RADIO in the 70-80s. It's that simple. EVERYONE knows about these guys.


And all their sales combined will not come close to any single bands' classic albums. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't release them but they would be thrilled to break even.

As for Neil Young, that is his thing. Neil has also released some pretty bad stuff over the years. I would prfer a band not go that route.

Besides the members of the current band have released a bunch of things with their own acts.

quote:
interesting well the current excuse is it is not financially woth it but it is b.s. and a cop out like you said but people are buying into it.




The band has never said that nor are they ever likely to. It is about songs and desire. If the time and songs are right then it will happen. But I wouldn't want to see some forced release just for the sake of it. I would not hold my breath though. Warren can not be expected to write the amount required and somehow have two other acts.

I understand people wanting a new album but to actually be mad about it? Are you expecting the Holy Grail Of ABB albums? Calling the man a coward because he hasn't released some album that you want? Don't really follow that logic.

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 08:00 PM
quote:
interesting well the current excuse is it is not financially woth it but it is b.s. and a cop out like you said but people are buying into it.


in the mid 90's when PRINCE starting releasing the music himself he said he had to sell a fraction of what he did to make money now that a record company wasn't involved. it is possible to still make money on an album but maybe having to do it themselves is the way to go

 

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  posted on 10/14/2010 at 08:55 PM
Or just match that profit with a few nights work at the Beacon.

 

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  posted on 10/15/2010 at 07:03 AM
Maybe they just don't want too or it could of become too hard.Many of the older musicians just don't write songs like they used to.Do you honestly think that the material Neil Young,Bod Dylan or Eric Clapton put out now is anywhere near as good as what they released in the 60's or 70's because I don't.
How may new songs have the likes of Paul Simon,Joni Mitchell or David Bowie released in the last two decades not many and of these how many stand up their best early work.

[Edited on 10/15/2010 by EnglishDarren]

 

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  posted on 10/15/2010 at 07:28 AM
The business for new music is dead. The album is dead. it is unfortunate, but that is the current environment. A trend I see happening are short albums, EPs, where songs get released in blocks of 3 or 4, which is something the ABB can and should do. The EPs can be sent out digitally with no need for fancy cover art.
 

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  posted on 10/15/2010 at 07:45 AM
quote:
Maybe they just don't want too or it could of become too hard.Many of the older musicians just don't write songs like they used to.Do you honestly think that the material Neil Young,Bod Dylan or Eric Clapton put out now is anywhere near as good as what they released in the 60's or 70's because I don't.
How may new songs have the likes of Paul Simon,Joni Mitchell or David Bowie released in the last two decades not many and of these how many stand up their best early work.

[Edited on 10/15/2010 by EnglishDarren]


bowie has retired from music and does not tour or make new albums. his last album was in 2003 and i think reality, heathen and outside (all release since 1990) are just as good or even better than a lot of his 70's stuff.

 
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