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Author: Subject: who are these guys? (one for the history buffs!)

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 07:54 PM
a friend of mine found this picture when cleaning out her mothers attic. we're trying to find out any information we can. does anyone know who these guys might be? army? indian fighters? militia? from what i can tell so far (from the flag) it's sometime @ between 1877-1890. any help is appreciated!







 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 08:48 PM
I don't think its army. Figure out what the flag is and you might figure out the mystery.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 09:33 PM

If it were army or militia seems to me there would be more display of military style insignia, particularly on the main guy, in the long coat. They are quite young, this strikes me as possibly a college fraternity, or some kind of social patriotic youth group.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 10:01 PM
The guys in front would probably be glad NY recognizes gay marriage.

That said, maybe this is a team of some kind???

You have ten men dressed alike and one (coach?) dressed better than the rest.

Has to be baseball.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 10:03 PM
Hockey season starts Thursday!!!

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 10:04 PM
I'm stumped on this one as well. It's such a provocative pose of the 2 young men in the foreground...I have to agree with previous posts - a fraternity or a team, maybe.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 10:15 PM
quote:
quote:
from what limited research I've done, that flag displayed in the background doesn't represent any incarnation of the U.S. flag since it's inception. Though it bears strong resemblances.


but then I found this...

http://www.usflagdepot.com/store/page18.html


from what i've found on line the flag appears to be a 38 star flag. there were at least 5 or 6 variations of this flag that i've found. plus i couldn't get a good picture but there's an eagle on top of the flag pole - dead give away it's U.S.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 10:31 PM
I found the same info re: the 38 star "medallion" flags -- apparently President Taft ordered that all US flags from 1912 forward would have the stars displayed in rows.

It also appears that the stars are dark on a light background, so not an actual US Flag.

What part of the country was the photo found, if I may ask ...?

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 11:00 PM
They are all quite young -- and it does not appear to be military -- neither in dress nor composition/poses. Perhaps a school/academy club. Knowing the location would be helpful, perhaps. So, where did her mother live?

A mystery -- but quite a lot of fun!

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 11:20 PM
quote:
So, where did her mother live?


we live in ohio (cleveland area). she says she remembers this from when she was a kid - she thinks her mom may have got it at an estate sale.

quote:
I don't know....the picture shows a cluster of additonal stars in the center of the circles, and the variations on the 38 star U.S. flag as presented at the following website display a different configuration, with one large star in the center.


here's a flag that's very similar to the one in the picture:



as i said before i've found 5 or 6 variations on the 38 star flag.

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 01:05 AM
i would guess early Military by the way all the uniforms are aligned and even the belts are in the same position...

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 01:19 AM
It' gotta be Butch Cassidy, the Sundance Kid and the Hole in the Wall gang.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 05:37 AM
My first instinct is to say that this is a private group, Like the Boy Scouts of America. Simple research shows that the Scouts as we know them were "born" in about 1910 or so...

So, I've an idea that might help and be fascinating as well. PBS has a show on called "History Detectives"....they are always asking for anyone with a "History mystery" to drop them a line.
If they decide to take on your quest, a rep from the show, stops by your home, listens to your issues and then they embark on finding an answer...all filmed and thoroughly explained, pretty cool format.

www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 05:41 AM
A student fraternity is more plausible then a military / militia groupshot but my personal guess is a baseball-team. Baseball soared in popularity in the post civil-war era.
Here's a baseball blog with a "Unidentified St. Louis Baseball Teams From The 1890's "
section:
http://thisgameofgames.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html.

You have to scroll down a lot to reach this subject. In the portraits there are a few similarities. The uniforms look like a more casual version of a military uniform. No insignia but belt buckles are worn. The posing looks a bit informal but the US flag is in display.
Your picture may be older and from another state of course. Your picture looks to be in fine shape so i guess it's not old fashion glass-plate photography (no cracks are visible).
More pics on the above mentioned website.





[Edited on 10/3/2011 by ABBDutchFan]

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 07:02 AM
I showed this to my wife who is a geneologist. She is intrigued and will investigate. She says the key is the flag.
 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 08:52 AM
quote:






The stars in the center of the circle do not create a perfect symmetry. It appears to me they may be arrow-shaped, or off-center to the upper right-hand corner.

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 09:24 AM
Charlie, Funny that is what you picked up on from that guy. I noticed he sort of looks African-American, which leads me away from both the baseball and fraternity explanations.
 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 09:58 AM
Wow. Both guys are sporting a moose knuckle!
 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 10:27 AM
it's a baseball team the two guys in front are the pitcher and catcher

just don't know which is which

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 05:17 PM
All of the men appear to be well dressed and well groomed. My best guess is that it may be some fraternity, club or choral group from an Ivy League school.

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 05:18 PM
quote:
Hockey season starts Thursday!!!


 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 09:21 PM
Looks sort of like a Wyoming Statehood flag 1890-1896

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 09:47 PM
quote:
quote:
Hockey season starts Thursday!!!







Days to go.

[Edited on 10/4/2011 by PhotoRon286]

 

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  posted on 10/4/2011 at 07:02 AM
Here's my wife Jackie's take on this
The flag is a called a medallion flag (stars are in a double circles). What is unusual is that canton has dark stars on white background. Thought it might be a civil/peace flag but stripes on them are vertical.The 38-star flag lasted from 1877 to 1890. Suggest the pic be sent to a historic flag org to see if they can solve the mystery The mens clothing appears to be a uniform of some kind. No creases in pants (except the 2 in front) date before 1890 when the trouser press came into play. Watch fobs/watches are being kept in pockets of shirts rather than pants. Only 3 men are wearing the baseball type shirts.

 
 


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