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Author: Subject: Four Takeaways From Obama’s Decision Against the Keystone XL Pipeline

Zen Peach





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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 03:03 PM
On Wednesday the Obama administration officially rejected the proposed Keystone XL pipeline, which would take oil from Canada to refineries in Texas.

The president said in a statement that his decision was “not a judgment” on the merits of the Keystone XL pipeline, rather it was based on the “arbitrary nature of the deadline.”

But after making that statement the administration also sent a report to Congress detailing why they decided against the pipeline, and there are more reasons than just the deadline. The report is short, just five pages, and it’s actually readable (we’ve embedded it below), but here are a few quick takeaways:

Many estimates of the potential jobs created by the pipeline are way off. “Regarding employment,” the report says, “the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline would likely create several thousand temporary jobs associated with construction; however, the project would not have a significant impact on long-term employment in the United States.” It goes on to note that while some have projected hundreds of thousands of jobs as a result of the pipeline, “this inflated number appears to be a misinterpretation of one of the economic analyses prepared on the pipeline.”

In fact, the pipeline would only result in a few thousand jobs. “Based on the amount of money the applicant projects it would spend on labor in building the pipeline, and the number of construction crews likely to be used in constructing the pipeline, the final EIS [Environmental Impact Study] estimated there would be approximately 5,000 to 6,000 direct construction jobs in the United States that would last for the two years that it would take to build the pipeline,” the report says.

And the overall economic impact would be minimal. Relying on the Environmental Impact Study prepared by the State Department for the pipeline in late August, the administration says that “over the remainder of this decade, even if no new cross-border pipelines were constructed, there is likely to be little difference in the amount of crude oil refined at U.S. refineries, the amount of crude oil and refined products such as gasoline imported to (or exported from) the United States, the cost of crude oil or refined products in the United States, or the amount of crude oil imported from Canada.”

By rejecting Keystone, we’re not losing out on massive amounts of oil. The administration’s report to Congress says that “there is currently excess cross-border pipeline capacity, but limited connections to the U.S. Gulf Coast refineries.” But the administration says there are ways of getting that oil to refineries in Texas without the Keystone XL, namely through “other new domestic pipelines, expansions or reversals of existing pipelines, and other modes of transport such as rail, that could play a role in increasing imports of crude oil from Canada to the United States, including to refineries in the U.S. Gulf Coast area.”

http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2012/01/18/why-obama-decided-against-the-k eystone-xl-pipeline/

You can read the full report at the website

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 04:02 PM
They can play CYA games on this all they like, but there's no way that rejecting a major source of non-conflict oil can be spun into a good thing.

Here's what I see: gas creeping back towards $4.00/gal., and a country doing nothing sane to reverse that. Whoever runs against Obama should be beating that like a drum.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 04:38 PM
Oil Sands slurry proposed for Keystone line wasn't destined for US gas tanks.

Oil was destined for US refineries in the gulf coast for offshore sale.

Kinder Morgan is in discussions to double their pipeline from Alberta to Vancouver. Oil would then be shipped to China or other destinations for refining.

Crazy if they didn't thnk there would be long term job growth due to the pipeline providing more product to refineries.

Canada and (OIL Corps) are going to sell Slurry to whoever wants it. Obama is playing a shell game and IMO eventually slurry will end up in the states for refinfing.

Cdn's can't figure out why Stephen Harper doesn't apply pressure to big oil to construct additinal refinieries in Vancouver or Alberta.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 09:08 PM
quote:
They can play CYA games on this all they like, but there's no way that rejecting a major source of non-conflict oil can be spun into a good thing.

Here's what I see: gas creeping back towards $4.00/gal., and a country doing nothing sane to reverse that. Whoever runs against Obama should be beating that like a drum.


All you have to do is ask Americans if they would approve of such a pipeline carrying super abrasive toxic materials across their water supply??? If their answer is no like mine is then it shouldn't be forced on millions of American's, putting their water supply at risk. If their answer is yes then I think they are insane. Tell the Republicans to sign off on all blame should there be any spills accidental or otherwise because I can just hear them now saying "It was Obama's fault, he is the one who approved it." I don't think it's worth the risk for the amount of actual long term jobs it would create.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 09:32 PM
The Food Stamp President says paying unemployment benefits will create more jobs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rav9ijyyZk

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 09:46 PM
'The Food Stamp President" line is getting really old and just shows ignorance, el rushbo style.

bush the Dullard relaxed the rules for qualifying for food stamps.

His penchant for starting wars helped trash the economy allowing more people to NEED food stamps.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 09:55 PM
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 09:56 PM
quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.


But the Pres. will be the one taking the heat.

 

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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 09:59 PM
quote:
quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.


But the Pres. will be the one taking the heat.


That's ok he took the heat for bailing out GM and saving thousands of jobs and now they are the number 1 auto manufacturer in the world again.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 10:12 PM
quote:
quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.


There's already close to 100,000 miles of oil pipeline under US soil (including Nebraska.) Too dangerous? Then what should be done about all the existing pipelines?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 10:15 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.


There's already close to 100,000 miles of oil pipeline under US soil (including Nebraska.) Too dangerous? Then what should be done about all the existing pipelines?


Apples/oranges.

Next???

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 10:18 PM
quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.


The governor of Nebraska just jumped on the Nebraska Ranchers Bandwagon.

No way does a senator, governor, minster or member of parliament ever lead a crusade. They see a good thing and then jump on board the coat-tails of those that did all of the hardwork to lay the groundwork.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20111117/nebraska-sandhills-water-keyston e-xl-pipeline-ogallala-aquifer-transcanada

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 10:25 PM
quote:
quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.


The governor of Nebraska just jumped on the Nebraska Ranchers Bandwagon.

No way does a senator, governor, minster or member of parliament ever lead a crusade. They see a good thing and then jump on board the coat-tails of those that did all of the hardwork to lay the groundwork.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20111117/nebraska-sandhills-water-keyston e-xl-pipeline-ogallala-aquifer-transcanada


Want some support for your cynicism? Look at this:

http://www.governor.nebraska.gov/news/2012/01/18_pipline.html

Basically, he opposed it, but then can't pass up a chance to bash the Pres for doing what he wanted. Kee-rist!

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 10:31 PM
"The Climate Movement took on Goliath and won, demonstrating its growing strength. Sustained grassroots pressure aimed at holding the president accountable to the public interest proved more powerful than all the lobbyists and campaign cash the Oil Industry could muster.

This defeat of Big Oil is a huge victory for the health and safety of Americans. It belongs to the indigenous communities who first sounded the alarm of the dangers of tar sands extraction, to the Nebraska farmers and Texas ranchers who withstood TransCanada's
bullying in the name of their lands and livelihoods, to the activists from across the country who were arrested on the president's doorstep, and for all of us fighting for a safe climate and justice-fueled future."
-Friends of the Earth

"This is a victory for Americans who testified in record numbers."
-Bill McKibben

"In my view, this tar sand pipeline is a bad deal for the country and our
planet, and the president has acted in the best interest of the American people by saying no to Keystone XL."
-Senator Bernie Sanders (VT)

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 1/19/2012 at 10:49 PM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



The governor of Nebraska just jumped on the Nebraska Ranchers Bandwagon.

No way does a senator, governor, minster or member of parliament ever lead a crusade. They see a good thing and then jump on board the coat-tails of those that did all of the hardwork to lay the groundwork.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20111117/nebraska-sandhills-water-keyston e-xl-pipeline-ogallala-aquifer-transcanada
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



Want some support for your cynicism? Look at this:

http://www.governor.nebraska.gov/news/2012/01/18_pipline.html

Basically, he opposed it, but then can't pass up a chance to bash the Pres for doing what he wanted. Kee-rist!



I'm confused and think we are saying the same thing. I am saying if the Governor is taking props for opposing it as PeachyPetewi's post said then he is a bad man. Now you say he is pissed at Obama for opposing it but originall he opposed it???

I look forward to all of the United states shutting down coal fire burning power plants, shutting down all mining activities, etc.

I am pro-environment but I am opposed to shutting down the pipeline while for example big coal has permission to take the top off of a mountina in Virginia to get at the coal.


Crazy world

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 07:09 AM
It had been reported by numerous media outlets for the last couple months that he opposed it because of the devastation a spill would cause to the main aquifer that supplied drinking and irrigation water to Nebraska. Maybe big money finally got to him and he changed his mind.

I also saw an interview a couple days ago with the principal engineer who stated the pipe material itself was poor quality substandard Chinese material and during testing multiple leaks were discovered and he actually recommended halting it also because of the potential environmental devastation.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 09:39 AM
quote:
They can play CYA games on this all they like, but there's no way that rejecting a major source of non-conflict oil can be spun into a good thing.

Here's what I see: gas creeping back towards $4.00/gal., and a country doing nothing sane to reverse that. Whoever runs against Obama should be beating that like a drum.


It's already approaching $4.00/ gal. and it has nothing to do with the future potential of refining tar sand oil in Texas. Tar sand crude is not of the quality to refine into gasoline economically and this is all about what's good for the Texas oil conglomerates and not the American consumer. We're already exporting more refined petroleum products (diesel and # 2 fuel oil for example) now than we use domestically and still the price of gasoline and these other fuels are climbing dramatically so supply isn't the only issue. It's partly to do with the power of the refiners and how they can manipulate the market for gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc....Don't believe the hype about how this project will keep gasoline prices lower into the future. It's more complicated than that.

What Obama is most likely doing here is trying to win back his base just in time for the election. It's politically risky obviously, but he seems to think the payback is worth the risk with regard to votes in November.

[Edited on 1/20/2012 by Chain]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 11:24 AM
quote:
The president said in a statement that his decision was “not a judgment” on the merits of the Keystone XL pipeline, rather it was based on the “arbitrary nature of the deadline.”




I obviously lean to the right on issues, but trying to look at this objectively, this reasoning seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. How many deadlines have we seen set with regard to healthcare or whatever else? In fairness, perhaps the other deadlines were not arbitrary; I am not sure.

quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.



I think this argument was also made with regard to the Alaskan pipeline. From doing some reading recently on that project, it seems that the pipeline has only a gentle effect on the environment. The land can actually be preserved because the oil is transported without roads, and the system does not encourage further extraction of other natural resources in the area. It was designed with economic efficiency as well as environmental safety in mind.

Unfortunately, the cheapest method of shipping oil...is by boat.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 11:29 AM
quote:
quote:
The president said in a statement that his decision was “not a judgment” on the merits of the Keystone XL pipeline, rather it was based on the “arbitrary nature of the deadline.”




I obviously lean to the right on issues, but trying to look at this objectively, this reasoning seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. How many deadlines have we seen set with regard to healthcare or whatever else? In fairness, perhaps the other deadlines were not arbitrary; I am not sure.

quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.



I think this argument was also made with regard to the Alaskan pipeline. From doing some reading recently on that project, it seems that the pipeline has only a gentle effect on the environment. The land can actually be preserved because the oil is transported without roads, and the system does not encourage further extraction of other natural resources in the area. It was designed with economic efficiency as well as environmental safety in mind.

Unfortunately, the cheapest method of shipping oil...is by boat.






Just couldn't resist...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 12:29 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.


The governor of Nebraska just jumped on the Nebraska Ranchers Bandwagon.

No way does a senator, governor, minster or member of parliament ever lead a crusade. They see a good thing and then jump on board the coat-tails of those that did all of the hardwork to lay the groundwork.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20111117/nebraska-sandhills-water-keyston e-xl-pipeline-ogallala-aquifer-transcanada


Want some support for your cynicism? Look at this:

http://www.governor.nebraska.gov/news/2012/01/18_pipline.html

Basically, he opposed it, but then can't pass up a chance to bash the Pres for doing what he wanted. Kee-rist!


As I recall, initially, the Gov was generally neutral of the line saying it was more a federal matter. When quite a few Nebraskans raised big concerns about the line's proximity to the Ogallala Aquifer, and the path that the line was originally to take through the Sandhills region, Heineman said he had some real reservations and was hopeful that the company proposing the line would take those concerns into account. The Legislature was also studying, what if anything, it could do to determine the state's authority over the proposed line/path. There was consideration of calling a Special Session of the Unicameral to address the matter. The company then announced it would re-route the original planned route and then the Gov endorsed the idea.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 12:38 PM
quote:
quote:
The president said in a statement that his decision was “not a judgment” on the merits of the Keystone XL pipeline, rather it was based on the “arbitrary nature of the deadline.”




I obviously lean to the right on issues, but trying to look at this objectively, this reasoning seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. How many deadlines have we seen set with regard to healthcare or whatever else? In fairness, perhaps the other deadlines were not arbitrary; I am not sure.

quote:
This was an ecological and environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I'm glad the Governor of Nebraska had the foresight to insist this not be allowed.



I think this argument was also made with regard to the Alaskan pipeline. From doing some reading recently on that project, it seems that the pipeline has only a gentle effect on the environment. The land can actually be preserved because the oil is transported without roads, and the system does not encourage further extraction of other natural resources in the area. It was designed with economic efficiency as well as environmental safety in mind.

Unfortunately, the cheapest method of shipping oil...is by boat.


Not quite accurate, there has been a tremendous amount of damage in Alaska due to intermittent leaks and failures in the pipeline particularly in the early 90's (until government regulations were put in place to safeguard/prevent them) plus the pipeline is getting old and in need of a lot of replacement and repair. And don't ignore what one of the lead principal engineers on the project pointed out about the use of inferior Chinese piping materials.

[Edited on 1/20/2012 by Peachypetewi]

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 12:40 PM
I would bet the farm that oil companies submitted the same old environmental management plans year after year for any permits during the rubber-stamping Bush administration. It probably took a simple phone call to George or Dick from an old oil buddy to get thru any government pushback for more information. After the BP oil disaster all this has changed. President Obama has gotten a crash course on Environmental risk assessments and probably has an outside circle of consultants and scientists that review the "management plans" submitted by the oil industry. I am glad to see that they are pushing back for a safer way to construct the pipeline, and not bending to the political pressure. It will get built, and the company should stop crying if it needs to redesign certain portions of the application which will take additional time.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 12:59 PM
I don't want the pipeline built. A 36 inch pipe buried underground that WILL have leaks. The water in the Ogallala Aquafer is liquid gold imo and even more so as time goes on. I think the long term consequences and risk far out weigh any benefits of having the pipeline built. Nebraska tax payers were saddled with $2 million for the cost of a new study for finding an alternate route for the proposed pipeline. As far as I know the Ne. Gov. is still in lockstep with the Repub. party wanting the pipeline built but with an alternate route thru Ne..

[Edited on 1/20/2012 by Slimzimm]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 01:54 PM
quote:
The Food Stamp President says paying unemployment benefits will create more jobs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rav9ijyyZk



Good to see you have your Newt Tifany's Gingrich rhetoric down. Very crafty of you!

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2012 at 02:02 PM
quote:
I think this argument was also made with regard to the Alaskan pipeline. From doing some reading recently on that project, it seems that the pipeline has only a gentle effect on the environment. The land can actually be preserved because the oil is transported without roads, and the system does not encourage further extraction of other natural resources in the area. It was designed with economic efficiency as well as environmental safety in mind.

Unfortunately, the cheapest method of shipping oil...is by boat.
quote:


Another apples and oranges thing. This tar sand stuff has some of the most toxic chemicals known to man in it and it is something like 35 times more abrasive than regular oil. It is like liquid sand paper scraping away at the inside of the pipeline. I am not an expert but that doesn't sound safe and sound to me.

 

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