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Author: Subject: Sniper Scouts Use Symbols of Nazis on their Flag

Zen Peach





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  posted on 2/11/2012 at 01:52 PM
No it's not propaganda, here is is from the Marine Corps Times.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/02/marine-scout-snipers-nazi-ss-l ogo-020912/

By Dan Lamothe - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Feb 9, 2012 13:52:13 EST



Marine Corps scout snipers used the logo of the notorious Nazi SS organization while in Afghanistan in 2010, the service acknowledged Thursday.

The logo appeared on a flag in a photograph of the platoon taken in September 2010 in Sangin district, a hotly contested area in Helmand province. The Marines were with Charlie Company, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion, out of Camp Pendleton, Calif., and are shown sitting in combat gear with the U.S. flag and a blue flag with the stylized “SS” logo hanging behind them.

The logo also appears on a 7.62mm M40 sniper rifle carried by a Marine in another photograph distributed Thursday by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. Information embedded electronically with the image shows that it was released by the Marine Corps in 2004 and taken at the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center at Twentynine Palms, Calif. The two Marines in it were with the scout sniper platoon with 1st Battalion, 7th Marines.

Combined, the two photographs suggest that the practice has been carried out for years. The logo’s use is an apparent nod to “scout sniper,” a position exclusive to the Corps. The Army has scouts and snipers, but considers the positions to be separate.

“We don’t have all the information, but we know enough to know the Marine Corps needs to open a full investigation,” said Mikey Weinstein, the foundation’s president. “If these guys just get a non-judicial punishment, it’s absolutely absurd.”

The SS, or Schutzstaffel, was a paramilitary organization under the Nazi Party. It committed a variety of war crimes, and was outlawed by Germany after World War II.

The inspector general at I Marine Expeditionary Force at Pendleton was made aware of the “SS” flag photograph in November, said Capt. Gregory Wolf, a spokesman at Marine Corps headquarters. The Marines involved were ordered to stop using the logo. Marine officials at the Pentagon declined to comment on whether the Marines faced any discipline, saying the issue was handled on the unit level at Pendleton.

A Marine official, speaking on background due to the sensitivity of the issue, said the Corps’ leadership was not aware of the SS logo’s use until it came to their attention late last year.

“We don’t believe these Marine Corps snipers had a historical appreciation for what this symbol meant,” the official said. “As soon as leadership was made aware of it, they took action at the unit level and then passed that information throughout the sniper community and to those snipers serving in Afghanistan.”

The MRFF said Thursday in a letter sent to Commandant Gen. Jim Amos, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and other top Pentagon officials that it was contacted by 45 active-duty Marines concerned about the photographs.

“The implication of these photographs, if true, should be readily apparent,” the letter said. “If the use of the Nazi insignia has been, in any way, condoned or tolerated by the Marine Corp.[sic], the implications are abhorrent to everything for which our country is fighting and the constitutional principles for which it stands.”

Remarks: Makes you wonder about the training involved for this elite unit. What they learned, how it was done.

CNN had an interview with Kris Kyle, regarding his book American Sniper. He went to Iraq for four tours of duty and killed 151 people.

http://www.kcur.org/post/american-sniper

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/11/2012 at 02:30 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081430/255-confirmed-kills-Meet-Na vy-SEAL-Chris-Kyle--deadliest-sniper-US-history.html

255 people! One of them from 2100 yards away!

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/11/2012 at 03:03 PM
They have been using the logo on the rifles of the snipers to distinguish them from other military who may have the designation of just a scout and have one s on their rifles.

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/11/2012 at 03:26 PM
The swastika was a symbol of peace before it was a symbol of the Nazis. The ss design in this instance seemed to have come from a benign place...one would think, however, that someone would have studied history and understood the ramifications. That being said....the guys are doing one hell of a job...I'm not going to criticize them.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/11/2012 at 09:52 PM
Being that these soldiers have the courage and sense of duty to volunteer their service - and their lives in many cases - they deserve a very wide latitude IMO.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 2/12/2012 at 10:20 AM
It was a stupid oversight by these Marines but was obviously not done in a malicious way so I think they deserve a mulligan. I hope they learned from that stupid decision though and that it doesn't happen again.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 2/12/2012 at 01:34 PM
You beat me to it Ann. I believe it dates back thousands of years as a symbol of peace. Nazis fcked up a lot of symbols and styles. Sht the hitler mustache used to be funny when Chaplin and Hardy wore it. Then hitler fcked it up for everyone.

Scout snipers are interesting people. My father was one and he served and was lifelong friends with one of the most famous, Carlos hathcock. Carlos was a family friend. He was the most mild mannered southern gentleman. They are actually quite a paradox. I would consider my father and Carlos two of the most compassionate men i have ever met. However, over 40 years ago they were trained to eliminate targets without emotion. Notice I didn't say kill people; that would put emotion into it.

I am kind of laughing that this is even a story because you should see some of the sniper tshirts and sweatshirts my old man has. It says things like : don't run; you'll just die tired. Again, doesnt sound compassionate, but I take his actions in everyday life as more of a sign of his compassion than his black humor.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/12/2012 at 02:33 PM
As I said, I will never say a bad word about any of our people serving this country, especially the snipers. Because they take out necessary targets, they save the lives of those on the ground. I don't care what symbols they use. Peace to them and all my gratitude for a job well done!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/12/2012 at 06:20 PM
quote:
You beat me to it Ann. I believe it dates back thousands of years as a symbol of peace. Nazis fcked up a lot of symbols and styles. Sht the hitler mustache used to be funny when Chaplin and Hardy wore it. Then hitler fcked it up for everyone.

Scout snipers are interesting people. My father was one and he served and was lifelong friends with one of the most famous, Carlos hathcock. Carlos was a family friend. He was the most mild mannered southern gentleman. They are actually quite a paradox. I would consider my father and Carlos two of the most compassionate men i have ever met. However, over 40 years ago they were trained to eliminate targets without emotion. Notice I didn't say kill people; that would put emotion into it.

I am kind of laughing that this is even a story because you should see some of the sniper tshirts and sweatshirts my old man has. It says things like : don't run; you'll just die tired. Again, doesnt sound compassionate, but I take his actions in everyday life as more of a sign of his compassion than his black humor.



They must have great abilities to compartmentalize to be able to stop all emotions and just kill someone. I thought only psychopaths could do that. I don't know how someone who is compassionate (which is a conscience driven feeling) can just kill people and not feel anything. How are they able to dehumanize another human being and regard them as targets instead of people so that they can kill them with no remorse or emotion?

I think most people if ithey are put in a kill or be killed situation will kill to save themselves, but that is an extreme survival mechanism. How do these snipers just turn it all off and kill large numbers of people and then not have problems with that later on?

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/12/2012 at 07:27 PM
I can't answer that with any knowledge or authority, but I would suggest they are able to do it because they believe with every fiber of their being what they are doing is necessary to save lives. And I would expect some of them may well struggle with it later in life but I dare say they'd keep it to themselves.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 2/13/2012 at 11:29 AM

quote:
They must have great abilities to compartmentalize to be able to stop all emotions and just kill someone. I thought only psychopaths could do that.


I think Ann said it best below. And you are particularly correct that they keep it to themselves.

quote:
I can't answer that with any knowledge or authority, but I would suggest they are able to do it because they believe with every fiber of their being what they are doing is necessary to save lives. And I would expect some of them may well struggle with it later in life but I dare say they'd keep it to themselves.


Well said Ann, and you couldn't be more right. There is a book about Carlos Hathcock called Marine Sniper and it delves into this question of the ethics of war. The scout sniper program and sniper programs are often debated in ethical terms. Combat infantrymen kill with emotion, and typically after they have been fired upon. Snipers actually go out and hunt the enemy.

In the beginning of the book, Sergeant Hathcock is faced with a tough ethical decsion because a young vietnamese boy, riding a bike loaded with weapons for the Veitcong was traveling down the road from him. He knew that the boy was just the mule for the Viet Cong and that he was doing the work that men should be doing, not young boys. Carlos knew that if the boy got the weapons to the enemy, they might be used to kill fellow Marines. He told himself " Children in war grow up quickly. And Marines die as fast as they do from bullets fired by twelve-year-old boys as they do from bullets fired by men. " At first Carlos shot at the boys bike to knock him off and make him not want to deliver the guns to the Viet Cong. After his warning shot, the boy picked up a weapon, loaded it, and shot towards him, so Carlos dropped him dead.



 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/13/2012 at 12:10 PM
That's pretty chilling but I guess it shows the reality of war.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 2/15/2012 at 08:26 AM
The symbol has been in Native American history for hundreds of years but it is turned on one side to make a square not turned on edge... and it would be tough to be a sniper no doubt about it..
 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 2/15/2012 at 04:22 PM
Great another book by a SEAL. Keep it up guys you are writing and talking yourselves right out of a job.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 2/15/2012 at 04:22 PM
Great another book by a SEAL. Keep it up guys you are writing and talking yourselves right out of a job.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 2/15/2012 at 07:36 PM
quote:
Great another book by a SEAL. Keep it up guys you are writing and talking yourselves right out of a job.



Well the Walmart contingent may have the desire to shoot people, but there aren't many who can survive the SEAL training, so I think their jobs are secure!

 

____________________
"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 
 


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