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Author: Subject: Union Spanking

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:24 AM
The best part of last night's results is the clear message that the voters of WI sent to the public union cabal: enough!

Time is long past to reverse the mistakes of the 60's, when politicians saw the union voting block and their potential for campaign cash, and surrended their responsibility to the taxpayer by permitting collective bargaining. One hopes this starts a national trend to eliminate these deals (they were never "rights" to begin with), and take an important step toward fiscal order in govt.

quote:
Governor Walker's Victory Spells Doom For Public Sector Unions

Public sector unions have reached their high water mark. Let the cleanup begin as the red ink recedes.

Despite a last-minute smear campaign accusing Scott Walker of fathering an illegitimate love child, the governor’s recall election victory sends a clear message that should resonate around the nation: The fiscal cancer devouring state budgets has a cure, and he has found it. The costly defeat for the entrenched union interests that tried to oust Walker in retribution for challenging their power was marked by President Obama’s refusal to lend his weight to the campaign for fear of being stained by defeat. We’ll see how well this strategy of opportunistic detachment serves in the fall as Obama reaches out to unions for support.

This fight is not without precedent. Progressive patron saint Franklin Delano Roosevelt—who more than any other president set our country on a course away from the founding principles of limited government—knew that public sector unions would be the death of the social welfare state he worked so hard to create. Hence, he consistently opposed allowing government employees to unionize. Today, Greece sets the example of what happens when public sector unions gain the upper hand.

In 1959 Wisconsin became the first state to allow collective bargaining by government employees. The projected cost of supporting Baby Boomer union retirees now threatens to bankrupt the state, as it does many others. Scott Walker ran for office promising change. The fiscal medicine he is administering may be bitter, but it looks like it is starting to work. The state budget has been balanced. The unemployment rate has been dropping and is now below the national average. Property taxes are down. Fraudulent sick leave policies—which allowed employees to call in sick and then work the next shift for overtime pay—have been ended. The government has stopped forcibly collecting union dues from workers’ paychecks.

Best of all, the myth that union bosses represent their members’ interests has been exposed as a lie. Now that union dues are voluntary, tens of thousands of union members have stopped paying them. Membership in the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union (AFSCME) has dropped by half. Membership in the state’s American Federation of Teachers (AFT) is down by over a third. Given unions’ influential role in most elections, the national implications of this trend are staggering.

Walker’s message is clear: The key to bringing balance back to public sector labor relations and balance state budgets is to break the iron triangle of closed-shop mandatory unionization, compulsory dues collection, and oversized campaign donations to politicians that promise to do the unions’ bidding. If other governors take his cue and take up the cause, that giant sucking sound you hear will be the air coming out of union bosses’ bloated political action budgets.

The work in Wisconsin is not complete. The controversial law exempted police and firefighters, a political concession to get the legislation passed. Federal courts have zeroed in on this anomaly, striking down certain sections of the law because they do not treat workers equally. This needs to be repaired— by rescinding the exemption for public safety workers. With the recall election behind him, Walker may be sufficiently emboldened to do just that.

The power of private sector unions was long ago broken by many heavily unionized companies going bankrupt. While this was painful for both workers and shareholders, the economy motored on as nimbler non-union competitors picked up the slack. This approach is problematic for the public sector because bankrupt state and local governments cannot be replaced by competitors waiting in the wings. Yes, citizens can always vote with their feet, emptying out cities like Detroit, leaving the blighted wreckage behind. But isn’t Walker’s targeted fiscal retrenchment less painful than scorched-earth abandonment?

Chicago machine candidate Barack Obama rode into office to the tune of Hail to the Chief, promising the unions that backed him the gift of card check elections, ending the secret ballot that shields employees from union intimidation. He may well ride into retirement to the tune of On Wisconsin as the era of closed shop unionism comes to an end.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrezza/2012/06/05/governor-walkers-victory- spells-doom-for-public-sector-unions/


 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:31 AM
This is good. Teachers, policemen and firefighters destroyed the economy. About time someone did something.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:36 AM
I liken the Democrats fondness for unions comparable with their affection for trains. What is it about Liberals and trains? Lets face it, the heyday of train travel was probably in the 40's or '50's. They've outlived their usefullness, much like unions, and they won't let go of either one. Not too progressive IMO.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:36 AM
Maybe the whole Wisconsin deal was simply a $1 bet between the Koch Brothers...



 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:37 AM
quote:
I liken the Democrats fondness for unions comparable with their affection for trains. What is it about Liberals and trains? Lets face it, the heyday of train travel was probably in the 40's or '50's. They've outlived their usefullness, much like unions, and they won't let go of either one. Not too progressive IMO.


If you are conservative, doesn't change go against your core belief?

What do you care what liberals and pregessives think about anything?

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:38 AM
Well maybe if the psychotic right wing f*&kheads get their wish and bust up unions and the entire world withers into a capitilistic orgy of low wages and deregulation and forced labor we will at least move to closer to Marx's vision of the world cannibalizing itself on a free market, and it will eventual lead to a state of enlightenment following a bloody revolution. what people don't realize is that if these neo-cons got their wish and moved everything completely right, people would become so opressed and desperate it would lead to violence and chaos and hopefully change. so bring it on!!!..........i also have little use or respect for anti-union nuts, as someone who has many friends and family depending on them
oh well........I JUST PREFER TO EAT A SHROOM FOR PEACE

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:38 AM
quote:
I liken the Democrats fondness for unions comparable with their affection for trains. What is it about Liberals and trains? Lets face it, the heyday of train travel was probably in the 40's or '50's. They've outlived their usefullness, much like unions, and they won't let go of either one. Not too progressive IMO.


Yeah those millions of commuters in New York and Chicago every single day never use trains.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:40 AM
quote:
quote:
I liken the Democrats fondness for unions comparable with their affection for trains. What is it about Liberals and trains? Lets face it, the heyday of train travel was probably in the 40's or '50's. They've outlived their usefullness, much like unions, and they won't let go of either one. Not too progressive IMO.


Yeah those millions of commuters in New York and Chicago every single day never use trains.


Those people don't use cars, and therefore, buy less gasoline. Can't have that!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 10:52 AM
quote:
This is good. Teachers, policemen and firefighters destroyed the economy. About time someone did something.


My thoughts exactly...it's about time they get off the gravy train and move out of those million dollar homes.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:00 AM
quote:
Yeah those millions of commuters in New York and Chicago every single day never use trains.


The trains work pretty well in NYC I must say. The MTA, on the hand, is a total mess, when it comes to handling their finances.


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:08 AM
quote:
quote:
I liken the Democrats fondness for unions comparable with their affection for trains. What is it about Liberals and trains? Lets face it, the heyday of train travel was probably in the 40's or '50's. They've outlived their usefullness, much like unions, and they won't let go of either one. Not too progressive IMO.


Yeah those millions of commuters in New York and Chicago every single day never use trains.


Two Liberal hotbeds. See what I mean?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:09 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I liken the Democrats fondness for unions comparable with their affection for trains. What is it about Liberals and trains? Lets face it, the heyday of train travel was probably in the 40's or '50's. They've outlived their usefullness, much like unions, and they won't let go of either one. Not too progressive IMO.


Yeah those millions of commuters in New York and Chicago every single day never use trains.


Those people don't use cars, and therefore, buy less gasoline. Can't have that!


Cars are bad. Let's go with light rail!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:10 AM
quote:
Maybe the whole Wisconsin deal was simply a $1 bet between the Koch Brothers...






Wouldn't be suprised by that.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:11 AM
I miss trains. I wish we'd have a decent rail system in this country. I'd travel by train but I'll never, if at all possible, step into another airplane.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:27 AM
quote:
This is good. Teachers, policemen and firefighters destroyed the economy. About time someone did something.
Not remotely the point, but the unfunded liabilities for state and local pensions is in the trillions. So what's better: dealing with that impossible future now by making changes, or being handcuffed by union contracts that prohibit any adjustments until the collapse eventually occurs? Seems like a no-brainer.

The real point is eliminating a source of corruption in govt. Most of the progressives here would cheer the reversal of Citizens United, because of the belief that it opened the door to more corruptive influences. This is no different, other than it's your ox being gored instead of someone else's this time.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:40 AM
Show me a collective group of teachers making more than a collective group of bankers and I'll then agree that unions aren't that good. Until then, outrageous examples excluded, unions have made this country a better place. Corruption in unions? Sure....corruption on wall street? Absolutely......speaking of that...how's everyone's facebook stock doing these days? Another example of the little investor getting screwed!

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:52 AM
quote:
Show me a collective group of teachers making more than a collective group of bankers and I'll then agree that unions aren't that good.


Walk into most Wall Street banks and you will find most of the people probably make the equivalent of a teacher, if not less. They also a benefits package that is gone once they lose their job.

quote:
quote:
how's everyone's facebook stock doing these days? Another example of the little investor getting screwed!

If you bought that stock as a little investor, then you are a moron that did not do your due diligence and have no business investing money in any market. Go take your money and go to the track and put it on a 99-1 shot. People can look in the mirror for that mistake. Or they can continue to blame some banker for it. You know that guy in the suite made you buy that stock. They made you, took the gun out and said they would rape and kill your daughter if you didn't buy it.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:53 AM
Apples and oranges......has nothing to do with the unions and their relevance, or lack there of.........

I'm curious, did anyone hold a gun to their heads and make them by those IPO's, when they bought them did they receive a guarantee? I would think that for as long as Wall Street has been around it is common knowledge that nothing is guaranteed......

[Edited on 6/6/2012 by er1016]

 

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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:55 AM
"but the unfunded liabilities for state and local pensions is in the trillions."

Ah, that would depend upon what state you're living in. New York state's defined benefit pension system, now in its 91st year of existence, to its credit, is very well capitalized and extremely healthy. The fund, as of March 31st, has an audited fiscal asset balance of just over 146 BILLION dollars. The highest since the financial meltdown in 2008-09. It's annual outlay is around $6.5 Billion per year to retirees and is a significant stimulus to the NYS economy. On top of that, most of the current retirees have the most benefits of all the tiers and so the annual outlay will probably go down as we move forward and additional workers retire with significantly less generous benefits.

That's not to say, however, that there isn't room for some reform of the system. But you should stop assuming every state and local pension system is broke and under capitalized as this just isn't necessarily the case.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:56 AM
So I guess everyone should make the exact same amount of money regardless of the jobs they do? Are bankers overpaid absolutley, are firefighters underpaid absolutely can the problem be fixed in our lifetimes, not likely, but the fix is easy, tax everyone the same amount, provide services that can be paid for based on the tax revenues of your state, county, etc and pay those people well. The facebook thing is just a ludicrous comment, why in gods name would anyone buy that stock? To make money of course. If anyone out there chose to read the prospectus you will clearly see that no where in it does it suggest your money is guaranteed and you are guaranteed a profit??? Cmon, buyer beware.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 11:58 AM
quote:
But you should stop assuming every state and local pension system is broke and under capitalized as this just isn't necessarily the case.
You're exactly right. some states and cities have done a fine job managing their fiscal obligations. But nationally, the total of "trillions" in unfunded future liabilities is accurate.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 12:00 PM
No, but you will note that there are a number of lawsuits pending against facebook alledging that the smaller investors were not given information that was deliberately withheld. Major investors made millions based on the information, the smaller investors are steadily losing money. That is not a fair playing field and was the point I was making....big money makes out just fine....it's the common man that needs the protections of the unions.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 12:07 PM
quote:
No, but you will note that there are a number of lawsuits pending against facebook alledging that the smaller investors were not given information that was deliberately withheld.


A day or two before the IPO GM pulled their advertising, stating that facebook advertising doesn't pull. If that's not a kiss of death, nothing is. How much more information do you need? Any idiots that ignored that story shouldn't be investing in stocks.

Facebook advertising doesn't work and Mark Zuckerberg is a little con-man.

Facebook blows.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 12:09 PM
quote:
The real point is eliminating a source of corruption in govt.


Well, IMO, this whole thing in Wisconsin is ultimately about the privatization of public utilities, with union busting as a bonus.

The provision in the original legislation which called for no-bid giveaways of the public utilities to the private sector by a select panel of state officials was/is, to me, the ultimate example of crony capitalism. If you happen to be the private entity that acquires public utility facilities, it sure does remove all potential headaches when it comes to dealing with the union of workers at said facilities if said union has been busted.

IMO, none of this is about doing the honorable thing in terms of restorations of state budget fiscal sanity and all that. It's about people making money, much like so many other things...and the right and wrong of that is a philosophical discussion in a different place. In the end though, it's all about the dough and who can make the most of it through manipulation of government. So, really, your point of trading corruption for corruption still holds in this scenario too.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2012 at 12:10 PM
quote:
quote:
No, but you will note that there are a number of lawsuits pending against facebook alledging that the smaller investors were not given information that was deliberately withheld.


A day or two before the IPO GM pulled their advertising, stating that facebook advertising doesn't pull. If that's not a kiss of death, nothing is. How much more information do you need? Any idiots that ignored that story shouldn't be investing in stocks.

Facebook advertising doesn't work and Mark Zuckerberg is a little con-man.

Facebook blows.


I agree with your assessment of Zuckerberg but here's the article. If I'm missing something, please explain it to me:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/facebook-ipo-shareholders-lawsuit- zuckerberg_n_1572246.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl6%7Csec3_l nk1%26pLid%3D167444

 

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