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Author: Subject: Romney - the Gift that Keeps Giving

Zen Peach





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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 01:44 PM
Scratch Italy off the list of Romney supporters:

http://www.newser.com/story/151555/italy-stewing-over-bains-tax-free-phone- deal.html

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 01:59 PM
Typical!!! Let's see those tax records Flip!!!

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:02 PM
Didn't know Italy now voted for our President. But given that a 20-something white kid can pose as Attorney General Holder in his voting district and be offered his ballot, I guess anything is possible.

Anything to keep scrutiny off the President's record is good stuff I guess.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:19 PM
What did he do wrong now? Looks like a pretty smart business deal, and that's a bad thing?
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:20 PM
quote:
Typical!!! Let's see those tax records Flip!!!


Did you ever hear "Jesus, the Missing Years" by John Prine? Kind of reminds me of Obozo, big chunks of his history somehow evaporated and a few people are worried about Mitt's tax returns.

Seems to me that if you want to talk tax returns (Geitner???), why can't you ask about Obozo's transcripts and academic history and how the dip **** got into Columbia in the first place.

Resume ignoring...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ1LC7AotNE

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:31 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/obama%E2%80%99s-college-classmate-the -obama-scandal-is-at-columbia/

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:32 PM
quote:
Didn't know Italy now voted for our President. But given that a 20-something white kid can pose as Attorney General Holder in his voting district and be offered his ballot, I guess anything is possible.

Anything to keep scrutiny off the President's record is good stuff I guess.


Way to try to change the topic to deflect criticism of Romney.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:37 PM
quote:
quote:
Didn't know Italy now voted for our President. But given that a 20-something white kid can pose as Attorney General Holder in his voting district and be offered his ballot, I guess anything is possible.

Anything to keep scrutiny off the President's record is good stuff I guess.


Way to try to change the topic to deflect criticism of Romney.


Sorry. I should have kept in mind that most of the sheep would rather enjoy the mudfest instead of focusing on the real problems facing us.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:47 PM
Romney IS a real problem facing us.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 02:53 PM
quote:
Romney IS a real problem facing us.



From his recent "success" on his trip overseas & to the article posted above, it looks like Mitt is getting a good head start on foreign policy expectations and perceptions of him.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 03:39 PM
MITT ROMNEY FAVORABILITY RATINGS STALL

Mitt Romney is struggling with the lowest personal popularity ratings for a presumptive presidential nominee in midsummer election-year polls back to 1984....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-favorability_n_1755103 .html

Not good news for Mittens.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 03:42 PM
quote:
Didn't know Italy now voted for our President. But given that a 20-something white kid can pose as Attorney General Holder in his voting district and be offered his ballot, I guess anything is possible.

Anything to keep scrutiny off the President's record is good stuff I guess.


Not sure what this has to do with Obama's record. It's a different topic and it's pretty relevant. Italy belongs to the EC which is an important ally of ours. It's important to keep up good relations with the allies.

Romney already has a problem in England where he managed to insult the conservatives—no small feat--and so he hardly needed to add another country to his list.

In short American companies that sell their goods abroad benefit from a positive US image. If one starts one's tenure alienating the developed world there is really no way to go but down. How anyone sees this as positive for the US is beyond me.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 03:49 PM
I'm still marveling at how Romney managed to offend some Israelis AND the Palestinians at the same time. And you're right, swifty, we have to do business with these countries and try to negotiate peace with some others so it is important.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 03:57 PM
quote:
quote:
Typical!!! Let's see those tax records Flip!!!


Did you ever hear "Jesus, the Missing Years" by John Prine? Kind of reminds me of Obozo, big chunks of his history somehow evaporated and a few people are worried about Mitt's tax returns.

Seems to me that if you want to talk tax returns (Geitner???), why can't you ask about Obozo's transcripts and academic history and how the dip **** got into Columbia in the first place.

Resume ignoring...


By "big chunks" are you using that expression as a southern boy would to describe an ant the size of an elephant? You think Obama had hibernated in Tibet for a few decades.

Obama did an honors degree which required no thesis and so he completed his courses and he graduated. Affirmative action likely got him into Columbia and Harvard. This topic really excites you and it's not that mysterious unless you add a lot of redneck salt to it.

There are really important areas where Obama did f—k up and you’re never going to get there if you’re worried about how he ties his shoes.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 04:16 PM
quote:
I'm still marveling at how Romney managed to offend some Israelis AND the Palestinians at the same time.


This is what happens when he doesn't stay on script. His extemporaneous skills are a challenge. The upcoming debates should be a good watch. If Mitt doesn't stay on message, he could step in it quite easily.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 04:20 PM
quote:
quote:
Didn't know Italy now voted for our President. But given that a 20-something white kid can pose as Attorney General Holder in his voting district and be offered his ballot, I guess anything is possible.

Anything to keep scrutiny off the President's record is good stuff I guess.


Not sure what this has to do with Obama's record. It's a different topic and it's pretty relevant. Italy belongs to the EC which is an important ally of ours. It's important to keep up good relations with the allies.



So if an Italian businessman was to pull off a successful business deal here it would harm diplomatic relations? The relevance is staggering! Please.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 04:27 PM
No, but if the Italian President was thought to have screwed over the United States there might be a diplomatic problem. Right now Romney is a businessman....but he's running for the presidency. That would be a different matter if he was elected.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 05:30 PM
quote:
quote:
Typical!!! Let's see those tax records Flip!!!


Did you ever hear "Jesus, the Missing Years" by John Prine? Kind of reminds me of Obozo, big chunks of his history somehow evaporated and a few people are worried about Mitt's tax returns.

Seems to me that if you want to talk tax returns (Geitner???), why can't you ask about Obozo's transcripts and academic history and how the dip **** got into Columbia in the first place.

Resume ignoring...



If someone is gonna be in charge of setting tax rates I want to know how he handles his own taxes. Does he take advantage of every loophole and every shelter that us every day folk don't have at our disposal??? If so I would think he would probably favor those types of loopholes and shelters that the wealthy take such advantage of. I want someone who would try to close those loopholes and make sheltering money overseas illegal, not someone who supports those practices.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 06:25 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Typical!!! Let's see those tax records Flip!!!


Did you ever hear "Jesus, the Missing Years" by John Prine? Kind of reminds me of Obozo, big chunks of his history somehow evaporated and a few people are worried about Mitt's tax returns.

Seems to me that if you want to talk tax returns (Geitner???), why can't you ask about Obozo's transcripts and academic history and how the dip **** got into Columbia in the first place.

Resume ignoring...


If someone is gonna be in charge of setting tax rates I want to know how he handles his own taxes. Does he take advantage of every loophole and every shelter that us every day folk don't have at our disposal??? If so I would think he would probably favor those types of loopholes and shelters that the wealthy take such advantage of. I want someone who would try to close those loopholes and make sheltering money overseas illegal, not someone who supports those practices.


Interesting then that Romeny's tax plan lowers rates at all levels and closes loopholes. Contrasted against the current President's byzantine collection of tax credits, many of which for business are so complicated they cost more to hire an account for than the credit is worth, it begs the question of who you gonna support if tax simplicity is your issue...

quote:
The Romney Hood Fairy Tale

The false, invented analysis behind Obama's tax claims.

As he escalates his class war re-election campaign, President Obama has taken to calling Mitt Romney's economic plan "Robin Hood in reverse" or "Romney Hood." The charge is that even though Mr. Romney is proposing to cut tax rates for everybody across the board, Mr. Romney will finance this by imposing a tax increase on the middle class. His evidence is a single study by the Tax Policy Center, a liberal think tank that has long opposed cutting income tax rates.

The political left always says Daddy Warbucks gets all the tax-cut money. So this is hardly news, except that the media are treating this joint Brookings Institution and Urban Institute analysis as if it's nonpartisan gospel. In fact, it's a highly ideological tract based on false assumptions, incomplete data and dishonest analysis. In other words, it is custom made for the Obama campaign.

By the way, even the Tax Policy Center admits that "we do not score Governor Romney's plan directly as certain components of his plan are not specified in sufficient detail." But no matter, the study plows ahead to analyze features of the Romney plan that aren't even in it.

***
The heart of Mr. Romney's actual proposal is a 20% rate cut for anyone who pays income taxes. This means, for example, that the 10% rate would fall to 8%, the 35% rate would fall to 28% and all the brackets in between would fall as well. The corporate tax would fall to 25% from 35%.

The plan says these cuts would be financed in a revenue-neutral way. First, by "broadening the tax base," which means reducing or eliminating tax deductions and loopholes as in the tax reform of 1986. The Romney campaign doesn't specify which deductions—no campaign ever does—but it has been explicit in saying that the burden would fall most on higher tax brackets. So in return for paying lower rates, the wealthy get fewer deductions.

Second, the Romney campaign says it expects to increase revenues by increasing the rate of economic growth to 4%, up from less than 2% this year and in 2011. (Separately from tax reform, but clearly relevant to budget deficits, Mr. Romney says he'd gradually reduce spending to 20% of the economy from the Obama heights of 24%-25%.)

The class warriors at the Tax Policy Center add all of this up and issue the headline-grabbing opinion that it is "mathematically impossible" to reduce tax rates and close loopholes in a way that raises the same amount of revenue. They do so in part by arbitrarily claiming that Mr. Romney would never eliminate certain loopholes (such as for municipal bond interest), though the candidate has said no such thing.

Based on this invention, they then postulate that Mr. Romney would have to do something he also doesn't propose—which is raise taxes on those earning less than $200,000. In the Obama campaign's political alchemy, this becomes "Romney Hood" and a $2,000 tax increase.

The Tax Policy Center also ignores the history of tax cutting. Every major marginal rate income tax cut of the last 50 years—1964, 1981, 1986 and 2003—was followed by an unexpectedly large increase in tax revenues, a surge in taxes paid by the rich, and a more progressive tax code—i.e., the share of taxes paid by the richest 1% rose.

For example, from 1980 to 2007, three tax rate cuts brought the highest marginal tax rate to 35% from 70%. Congressional Budget Office data show that when the tax rate was 70%, the richest 1% paid 18% of all federal income taxes. With the rate down to 35% in 2008, the share of taxes paid by the rich doubled to 40%.

The Tax Reform Act of 1986, which chopped the top income tax rate to 28% from 50%, was probably most similar to the Romney tax proposal because both were designed to lower rates and broaden the tax base. CBO and Martin Feldstein of the National Bureau of Economic Research found that the 1986 tax reform increased the share of taxes paid by the rich (to about 25% from 21% before the reform), in part because their reported taxable income rose as they lost tax shelters. Many businesses also changed their tax status from corporations to Subchapter S companies, thus paying taxes at the individual rate. This also increased the reported share of income declared, and tax paid, by the rich.

So on four separate occasions what TPC says is "mathematically impossible"—cutting tax rates and making the tax system more progressive—actually happened. Hats off to the scholars at TPC: Their study manages to claim that what happens in real life can't happen in theory.

The TPC analysis also fails to acknowledge how highly dependent the current tax system is on the very rich. As the Tax Foundation explains in a recent report based on CBO data: "The top 20 percent of households pay 94 percent of federal income taxes. The bottom 40 percent have a negative income tax rate, and the middle quintile pays close to zero."

This reality is treated as a state secret in Washington because it refutes Mr. Obama's campaign theme that the rich are undertaxed. The same crowd that has been howling that the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes now touts a study concluding that cutting taxes will only benefit the rich. Well, which is it?

***
Another reality is that more than one-third of Americans pay no income tax. Many in this group contribute payroll taxes, but for most their only connection to the income tax is to receive refundable tax credits (in the form of a check) that are effectively government payments. This is the basis for the Tax Policy Center's wild claim that the Romney plan raises taxes on those who earn less than $30,000—a group that now has a negative tax liability.

The claim is that reducing various refundable tax credits that are cash payments from the government are a "tax increase." By this logic, reducing unemployment benefits or food stamps would also be a tax increase. Even the CBO and Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation acknowledge that refundable tax credits are government outlays not tax cuts.

The study's claims also rest on the assumption that tax cutting doesn't increase economic growth. The study's authors expose their own bias on this point by asserting that "the effects of tax rate reductions are likely to be small or even negative" over 10 years.

It's certainly true that not all tax cuts have the same economic impact. But nearly all economists save for the most partisan liberals agree that cutting tax rates at the margin has the most bang for the buck. So how can the Tax Policy Center claim that cutting tax rates to increase incentives to work and invest has a "negative" impact? Not even the Keynesian economists who gave us the failed stimulus plan argue that the effect of tax cuts is negative.

Harvard economist Dale Jorgenson recently testified before the Senate Finance Committee that "a tax reform similar to the Reagan effort of 1986" would raise economic output over the long term "by $7 trillion in 2011 dollars."

You can argue that Mr. Romney's expectation of 4% GDP growth is too rosy, but the recent White House mid-session budget review predicts 4% growth in both 2014 and 2015 despite a huge tax increase next year. The Romney plan is far more realistic than that wish in the dark.

The Tax Policy Center's claim that it's impossible to make the numbers add up is also refuted by President Obama's own Simpson-Bowles deficit commission report. The Romney plan of cutting the top tax rate to 28% and closing loopholes to pay for it is conceptually very close to what Simpson-Bowles recommended.

And here's the kicker: Simpson-Bowles assumed that the top rate could be cut to 28%, loopholes could be closed, revenues as a share of GDP would rise to 20% and the deficit could be cut by close to $1.5 trillion. The difference is that the Romney plan caps tax revenues at about 18% of GDP so that taxes don't have to rise on the middle class. If Mr. Romney's numbers don't add up, then neither do those in the bipartisan Simpson-Bowles plan that the media treat as the Holy Grail of deficit reduction.

***
What the Obama campaign and its acolytes at the Tax Policy Center are really saying is that tax reform that reduces rates and makes all income groups better off is impossible. This is a far cry from what Democrats used to believe, going back to Jack Kennedy in 1964 and in the 1980s when prominent Democrats Bill Bradley, Dick Gephardt and Don Rostenkowski helped to write the 1986 tax reform.

The Obama Democrats, by contrast, favor income redistribution and raising rates on the wealthy for their own partisan political sake, no matter the damage to growth, the cost in lost revenue, or a less progressive tax code as the rich exploit loopholes.

The great irony is that the candidate most likely to raise taxes on the middle class is Mr. Obama. He could raise every tax on the rich he proposes and still not come up with enough revenue to finance the increases in spending he wants in a second term. Where do you think he'll turn then?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443792604577574910276629448.h tml?mod=googlenews_wsj


 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 07:22 PM
So, we've had the Bush tax cuts for all these years now and they're not exactly creating all those promised jobs and the country is deeper in debt than ever...for a number of reasons but one being wars that didn't, as promised, pay for themselves by grateful nations. I can do simple math but you don't cut income when you've got massive expenses and think you're going to balance a budget. I'm all for the Bush cuts expiring for everyone.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 07:52 PM
quote:
So, we've had the Bush tax cuts for all these years now and they're not exactly creating all those promised jobs and the country is deeper in debt than ever...

A little history might be in order. The rate cuts of ten years ago were enacted - at least in part - to help the country get back on its feet following 9/11. Some may forget, but that event created its own recession and left many doubts about the strength of our economy. So in the light of when they were instituted, those rate cuts contributed to keeping unemployment low for many years. Are they supposed to work forever? If so, what does? Conditions have changed, and we haven't responded to greater global competition with other necessary changes. But how raising anyone's rates now will help the overall economy is exclusively the domain of the class wariors, not economic realists.

quote:
I can do simple math but you don't cut income when you've got massive expenses and think you're going to balance a budget. I'm all for the Bush cuts expiring for everyone.
The math to balance the budget would require a 2-3x increase in everyone's taxes. The enormity of our debt is beyond comprehension, and far beyond the willingness of politicians or the public to deal with.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 10:30 PM
quote:
I can do simple math but you don't cut income when you've got massive expenses and think you're going to balance a budget. I'm all for the Bush cuts expiring for everyone.


Start cutting the massive expenses. We already have a problem with lack of demand and the economy is flat on it's back.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2012 at 11:29 PM
quote:
Romney IS a real problem facing us.



To be such a menace and so dangerous, it's funny how the Obama campaign can't come up with one single negative they can actually prove, not even a traffic ticket. They probably weren't expecting this thing to be tight. Obama was supposed to be ahead by 15-20 points and waltzing easily to a second term. It must be frustrating because they're scraping the bottom of the mud pit trying to pull ahead.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/9/2012 at 01:05 AM
quote:
quote:
So, we've had the Bush tax cuts for all these years now and they're not exactly creating all those promised jobs and the country is deeper in debt than ever...

A little history might be in order. The rate cuts of ten years ago were enacted - at least in part - to help the country get back on its feet following 9/11. Some may forget, but that event created its own recession and left many doubts about the strength of our economy. So in the light of when they were instituted, those rate cuts contributed to keeping unemployment low for many years. Are they supposed to work forever? If so, what does? Conditions have changed, and we haven't responded to greater global competition with other necessary changes. But how raising anyone's rates now will help the overall economy is exclusively the domain of the class wariors, not economic realists.

quote:
I can do simple math but you don't cut income when you've got massive expenses and think you're going to balance a budget. I'm all for the Bush cuts expiring for everyone.
The math to balance the budget would require a 2-3x increase in everyone's taxes. The enormity of our debt is beyond comprehension, and far beyond the willingness of politicians or the public to deal with.



W Bush promised those tax cuts long before 9-11-01!!! Before he was even elected when he was campaigning he promised those cuts should he get elected. That is the history.

 

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