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Author: Subject: NYC Police shoot 9 at Empire Sate building

Peach Extraordinaire





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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 12:21 AM
I just heard on our local news that the ballistic report on the 9 people shot out front of the Empire state build were hit by Police fire...????

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 09:56 AM
Here's an article

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=8787034

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 11:08 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-empire-state-victims-hit-police-gunfire-18084438 7.html

Go easy on the two cops, it is the first time they have shot anyone. They asked the shooter, Mr. Johnson to surrender, he refused and drew his 45 on them, they had no choice but to shoot to kill. Quite a stressful situation. It does not have the hallmarks of excessive force or police brutality, so those who want to jump on that bandwagon will have to wait for some other event to happen.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 11:24 AM
quote:

http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-empire-state-victims-hit-police-gunfire-18084438 7.html

Go easy on the two cops, it is the first time they have shot anyone. They asked the shooter, Mr. Johnson to surrender, he refused and drew his 45 on them, they had no choice but to shoot to kill. Quite a stressful situation. It does not have the hallmarks of excessive force or police brutality, so those who want to jump on that bandwagon will have to wait for some other event to happen.




Yeah, right.

For it to be "excessive" in NYPD terms, they would have had to reload twice.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 11:43 AM
I posted it because we have a group of people who believe that the general population should be armed. It shows in stressful situations that even those trained with guns end up shooting all over the place. 9 people got hit not by the gunman but by the cops shooting at the gunman and those cops have gone through shooting qualifications and hours of training.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 11:52 AM
I don't find any fault with the cops in this situation. 6 of the 9 were hit with bullet fragments that hit something else first. It could have been worse at such a high density tourist attraction. Thankfully nobody was hurt badly.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 02:19 PM
quote:
I don't find any fault with the cops in this situation. 6 of the 9 were hit with bullet fragments that hit something else first. It could have been worse at such a high density tourist attraction. Thankfully nobody was hurt badly.


If you don't find any fault with the police in the situation, then why don't you change the title of this thread? Because the title of this thread sure makes it sound like a member of the NYPD went on a killing spree in front of the Empire State Building.

Just an observation, of course.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 02:34 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't find any fault with the cops in this situation. 6 of the 9 were hit with bullet fragments that hit something else first. It could have been worse at such a high density tourist attraction. Thankfully nobody was hurt badly.


If you don't find any fault with the police in the situation, then why don't you change the title of this thread? Because the title of this thread sure makes it sound like a member of the NYPD went on a killing spree in front of the Empire State Building.

Just an observation, of course.



I didn't start the thread therefore I can not change or edit the title. Wouldn't have been my title choice but only the person that starts the thread can edit it or change it.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 03:15 PM
The title is factually correct.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 04:08 PM
quote:
quote:

http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-empire-state-victims-hit-police-gunfire-18084438 7.html

Go easy on the two cops, it is the first time they have shot anyone. They asked the shooter, Mr. Johnson to surrender, he refused and drew his 45 on them, they had no choice but to shoot to kill. Quite a stressful situation. It does not have the hallmarks of excessive force or police brutality, so those who want to jump on that bandwagon will have to wait for some other event to happen.



Yeah, right.

For it to be "excessive" in NYPD terms, they would have had to reload twice.
C'mon Ron. Should they not have shot at the guy pointing a 45 at them, who had just killed somebody, in possibly the biggest tourist attraction in New York City? You may have some personal beef with the NYCPD, but they had no recourse here. Damned if they did and damned if they didn't. I'm glad they did.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 04:48 PM
quote:
The title is factually correct.




Yep it is and it's sad that it happened. I'm not blaming the police for what happened they were trying to stop someone armed. My only point is that even trained people with a gun under duress do not shoot straight. Could you imagine the mayhem if 10 other people with minimal training had been armed and shooting...yes one of them may have hit the gunman but many more people would have been shot and the death toll would have been higher.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 05:18 PM
They're always looking for talent.

http://www.nypdrecruit.com/

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 05:37 PM
quote:
is there video footage of the incident out there? So that I can see how 9 effing innocent civilians were shot by NY's finest? Honestly, I know I can shoot with more accuracy and precision than that. Especially if somebody has a gun aimed at me. I'm gonna make that first shot count. Big time. Those clowns should have their badges taken away from them.


Wrong! It is called crossfire in a very populated area. Only three people got hiy by actual bullets. The other six people got hit with bullet fragments that hit the pavement or other objects first. They had no choice once that moron took out the weapon and pointed it at them. Had the guy not pulled the gun on the cops he would have been taken down peacefully. They did their job in this situation. It was not wrong or excessive like the Amadoo Diallo thing where the cops shot 41 times at an unarmed man.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 06:14 PM
quote:
is there video footage of the incident out there? So that I can see how 9 effing innocent civilians were shot by NY's finest? Honestly, I know I can shoot with more accuracy and precision than that. Especially if somebody has a gun aimed at me. I'm gonna make that first shot count. Big time. Those clowns should have their badges taken away from them.

Unless you have been in that situation before you have no idea how you would react, nor does anyone else. Target practice is an entirley different animal than shooting at a human being who is shooting at you, especially in close quarters, I don't care how much training you have had. Ask any veteran military or law enforcement personnel who have been under live fire. There is video out there you can watch.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 07:01 PM
On nationwide average Police officers fire less than two-hundred rounds a year. In order to be proficient at those types of close range situations-while employing discretionary target acquisition and engagement- a minimum of one-thousand rounds a week is required. That costs roughly $300.00 a week per operator. Remember that these are cops and not counter-terrorist operators. One way to mitigate this problem would be for patrol officers to carry long guns with advanced optics and sights. MP-5s would work well because they use a 9mm round and the weapons system is short and can be enhanced with a collapsible stock. However, now you are talking $3000.00 per system and I believe that the public would not want police officers to be carrying military weapons save for SWAT teams.

 

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  posted on 8/26/2012 at 08:39 PM
quote:
quote:

http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-empire-state-victims-hit-police-gunfire-18084438 7.html

Go easy on the two cops, it is the first time they have shot anyone. They asked the shooter, Mr. Johnson to surrender, he refused and drew his 45 on them, they had no choice but to shoot to kill. Quite a stressful situation. It does not have the hallmarks of excessive force or police brutality, so those who want to jump on that bandwagon will have to wait for some other event to happen.




Yeah, right.

For it to be "excessive" in NYPD terms, they would have had to reload twice.



I was referring to those "41 shots".

As for a "cross fire" that would imply shots coming from opposite directions.

Weren't the two shooting officers basically in the same location???

"Caught downrange" would be a better description.

Is the city of NY going to pay the hospital bills for the folks who were "caught downrange"???


 

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  posted on 8/27/2012 at 12:08 AM
I like police officers.
I know police pofficers.
I have no problem with police oficers.
Get in a problem, first thing you want to do is, ccall the police.


One of our USA terriost , a homegrown nut,does this .

Casuses chaos.

One civilian , innocent bystnder got accidently hit by bullet frags, a bullet, gun smoke , wahtever, one is too many.
Now, all those hit too will file, settle for whopping lawusits from the city.
What a mess.
God help us.

 

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  posted on 8/27/2012 at 11:54 AM
quote:
quote:
is there video footage of the incident out there? So that I can see how 9 effing innocent civilians were shot by NY's finest? Honestly, I know I can shoot with more accuracy and precision than that. Especially if somebody has a gun aimed at me. I'm gonna make that first shot count. Big time. Those clowns should have their badges taken away from them.


Wrong! It is called crossfire in a very populated area. Only three people got hiy by actual bullets. The other six people got hit with bullet fragments that hit the pavement or other objects first. They had no choice once that moron took out the weapon and pointed it at them. Had the guy not pulled the gun on the cops he would have been taken down peacefully. They did their job in this situation. It was not wrong or excessive like the Amadoo Diallo thing where the cops shot 41 times at an unarmed man.


thank you for posting how it really happened and the bullet fragments were not bullets just small pieces and probably pieces of concrete from the walls or street again the media and Goldtop have exaggerated the situation to make gun owners look bad..... come on people have a clue....

 

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  posted on 8/27/2012 at 11:55 AM
quote:
quote:
is there video footage of the incident out there? So that I can see how 9 effing innocent civilians were shot by NY's finest? Honestly, I know I can shoot with more accuracy and precision than that. Especially if somebody has a gun aimed at me. I'm gonna make that first shot count. Big time. Those clowns should have their badges taken away from them.


Wrong! It is called crossfire in a very populated area. Only three people got hiy by actual bullets. The other six people got hit with bullet fragments that hit the pavement or other objects first. They had no choice once that moron took out the weapon and pointed it at them. Had the guy not pulled the gun on the cops he would have been taken down peacefully. They did their job in this situation. It was not wrong or excessive like the Amadoo Diallo thing where the cops shot 41 times at an unarmed man.


You're right Pete. There are a lot of people in that area. The cops DID take out the shooter. And, unless the officers were opposite each other in relation to the shooter, downrange IS a more accurate term.

Handguns aren't that accurate and the margin for an errant shot is much greater with a six inch barrell compared to - say 22 inches.

Oh, I agreed with you, Pete.

[Edited on 8/27/2012 by alanwoods]

 

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  posted on 8/27/2012 at 12:00 PM
What do NYPD carry as service weapons? Glocks?

 

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  posted on 8/27/2012 at 02:16 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
is there video footage of the incident out there? So that I can see how 9 effing innocent civilians were shot by NY's finest? Honestly, I know I can shoot with more accuracy and precision than that. Especially if somebody has a gun aimed at me. I'm gonna make that first shot count. Big time. Those clowns should have their badges taken away from them.


Wrong! It is called crossfire in a very populated area. Only three people got hiy by actual bullets. The other six people got hit with bullet fragments that hit the pavement or other objects first. They had no choice once that moron took out the weapon and pointed it at them. Had the guy not pulled the gun on the cops he would have been taken down peacefully. They did their job in this situation. It was not wrong or excessive like the Amadoo Diallo thing where the cops shot 41 times at an unarmed man.


thank you for posting how it really happened and the bullet fragments were not bullets just small pieces and probably pieces of concrete from the walls or street again the media and Goldtop have exaggerated the situation to make gun owners look bad..... come on people have a clue....


I was not necessarily defending gun owners although as I have posted in the past that I am in support of legal liscensed hand guns and hunting guns. I am against ownership of military weaponry of any kind. I was defending the cops though who are trained in situations like this. I think they did the best they could. Had there been a few liscensed but untrained people there that day who might have pulled their guns and engaged I think a lot more people would have gotten caught down range or by crossfire. That is why such things are left to trained professionals.

Thank you Ron and Alan for correcting my misuse of the term crossfire wwith downrange which certainly makes more sense.

 

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  posted on 8/29/2012 at 02:16 PM
If you are a cop in a gunfight you are scared sh**, I don't care how much training you have, you are still human. Chances are you have never been in one before so you rely on your training of two times a year at the gun range in NYC, and whatever you do on your own at an area range. Being in that mental state is not going to make you the best shot, unforunately.

The area is unbeleivably crowded at that time so a miss by an inch is likely to hit someone or something. Bullets also go through people so that it is also possible that a well placed shot went through the original shooter and into someone else. When I was working I had someone take a couple of shots at me. One hit the building, shattered and then went into me in three different places causing minor injuries. The other hit the wall in back of me. I shot back. When it was all over I was amazed that I had fired three times at the guy, I though I shot once. No one else was hit as we were in a stairway with no one else in it.

Police work is not perfect, ever. No matter what you do one side will be unhappy with your actions. Mistakes are made and hopefully thay are minimal. The Cops did nothing wrong in this case, you could not wait and see what he would do next, if you waited and he killed someone else there would be a much larger chorus of people saying, "Why didn't the police do anything? They let him kill someone else."

Be safe.

[Edited on 8/29/2012 by NYCScammer]

 

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  posted on 8/29/2012 at 08:08 PM
quote:
What do NYPD carry as service weapons? Glocks?


Not sure. Originally they had 38 Specials but too many criminals started packin' 9 millimeters so they complained they were outgunned. Management began to understand.

 

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  posted on 8/29/2012 at 09:32 PM
NYPD carries Glock, Sig Sauer and Smith and Wesson 9mm's. Officers choice, you buy the one you want. Some old timers may still be carrying .38's such as Smith and Wessons and Rugers. I retired in 2007, the choices could have changed by now

Be safe.

[Edited on 8/30/2012 by NYCScammer]

 

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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 04:03 PM
The police handled the situation perfectly. In an incredibly crowded place with an armed madman on the loose the NYPD took him down and no one else was seriously hurt. As a New Yorker I am DEEPLY grateful to the police for all they do for us on a daily basis.

 

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