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Author: Subject: What are those of you on the right thinking when the President speaks?

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 9/6/2012 at 11:16 PM

I'm just baffled as to how this stuff doesn't resonate for some of you....I'm going to throw out some possibilities of what conservatives are thinking in response to Obama's speech. Please let me know if I hit on it...or feel free to add your own.

1) I don't want to empower my government representation to work toward a collective good.
2) That all sounds sweet, but it's not fair to ask the rich to pay for it.
3) I don't believe he really wants to accomplish these things.
4) I like the sounds of it, but I don't think these policies will really help me.
5) I don't want anyone lending me a hand, nor do I want my representation to address those that need one.
6) I want to keep as much of my $$ as possible and believe that the republicans will help me do that even after they cut taxes on the wealthy.
7) I make over 250,000 and this is BS.
8) Citizens should only help other citizens through their church, charity, or by being a good Samaritan.....not through the democratic process.
9) Cooperation and building partnerships with other countries is for weenies.
10) Romney is going to really streamline the government and cut waste and spending so that we get this debt under control; This clown is kidding himself with his plan.
11) He thinks he's so smart and better than me.

I will leave out the obvious inflammatory, ignorant reasons that motivate the Hank Jr. crowd, as I don't think that is much of what's at play on this board.

I'm serious with the above inquiry b/c I just don't how you can listen to both speak and then go vote for Romney. Blows my mind.

 
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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:10 AM
I find it amazing that anyone is influenced by speeches at political rallies. I just chuckled as I listened to the typical laundry list of populist promises contained in BO's speech tonight. Understand; I'm not blaming him or suggesting he's worse than anyone else in exploiting these political opportunities. Romney did it too, as have most all who have come before. It all part of the big circus.

Here's the problem for me: we've reached a point of limited options and a declining society precisely because of decades of citizens believing that govt should solve personal issues beyond protecting the citizenry from force and fraud. This results in votes for the guy making the most promises to aid their self interest, often at the expense of someone else's. This is well and fine to a point. But we've gone so far beyond any manageable or sustainable point down this path that we have constructed our own doom, but refuse to see it as such. Wisdom, restraint, morals, ethics, shame, consequence, etc have been replaced with unrealistic expectations of a lifestyle deserved and an unlimted menu of "rights" demanded. This is true for all positions of the economic spectrum.

The feel-good rhetoric of these events, and most everything politicians spew, is of no more substance than a sugar high. Wisdom is required to see through the lofty sentiment of the words and decide what is possible, what should be avoided because it is mere pandering, what will create more dependency, what will enslave future generations to debt, or what centralizes power leading to more corruption and less liberty. Unfortunately, many have lost the common sense our grandparents had about limits, restraint, or austerity, and therefore expect (demand!) an endless buffett from govt. A continual parade of politicians are all to willing to fill that vacuum of expectations with their promises. But the realities of human nature in governance and fiscal management will impose a far harsher outcome. Too bad that not enough of our fellow citizens are wise enough to see that, and keep falling for the empty rhetoric.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:24 AM
You're just saying that because Obama gave a really good speech and Romney's speech sucked.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:44 AM
You wish.

I've been saying essentially the same thing for years - and yes - even well back into the Bush Presidency.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 01:05 AM
I can't speak for anyone (conservative, progressive or independent). But I will speak for myself, I make my decisions based on what Obama's words and actions as well as the republicans have been thus far and by researching both sides of arguments on any given policy or debate.I try my hardest to use as impartial fact ck sites during my research along with any articles that I come across or one that may be posted on, say here. I try to vet as best I can before I make a decision one way or another.

Here's my problem with Obama, he stated he knew what he was getting into and if he didn't have things turned around in his first term, then he would/should be known as a 1 term President, or words to that effect..... Well I have followed and he even agrees that he hasn't done what he said he would......he needs more time. I have seen him do and say things that are very divisive and there have been several security leaks/issues under his watch one after another. I have seen some very questionable actions by his AG ,selective prosecutions, so forth and so on.I see money being spent and troops still in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan was expanded and continues.......as best I can tell just an extension of Bush policies........... Is this the first administration that this has happen,,,,,,,,,Hell no. But I refuse to buy into this whole it's Bush's fault or if the Republicans are blocking this and that as the sole or even large part of his ineptness, yes some of that is true, but the same can be truly be said for Harry Reid and the democrats in the senate, Let's not forget who had power for the first two years of his term either.

However he or Leader/ Commander in Chief and he is the person who said that he was going to change the way things operated in Washington, he hasn't......... That's not counting the economy and all the headaches that goes with that the numbers just don't substantiate the improvement that have been stated.......as cliche as it may be, we are not better off than we were when he took office and from what he and others have said thus far I don't see it getting any better with a second term...... When I was hired to go my job, I got it because my predecessor had things afu'd, hence the job opening. Now if I had the same record of success that this administration has had, do you think I would still have a job? Would, well I inherited this mess and need more time save me?

As for Romney, as I have stated before, I can't say what he may or may not do as President no one can for sure, it's just as big of a crap shoot as it was in "08 when Obama got elected. Make all the claims , accusations and half truths you want but bottom line is we wouldn't know what or how things would be until he was elected........kind or déjà vu-ish huh.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense.....its late..... Rich I agree with you as well....

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 02:37 AM
quote:
I can't speak for anyone (conservative, progressive or independent). But I will speak for myself, I make my decisions based on what Obama's words and actions as well as the republicans have been thus far and by researching both sides of arguments on any given policy or debate.I try my hardest to use as impartial fact ck sites during my research along with any articles that I come across or one that may be posted on, say here. I try to vet as best I can before I make a decision one way or another.

Here's my problem with Obama, he stated he knew what he was getting into and if he didn't have things turned around in his first term, then he would/should be known as a 1 term President, or words to that effect..... Well I have followed and he even agrees that he hasn't done what he said he would......he needs more time. I have seen him do and say things that are very divisive and there have been several security leaks/issues under his watch one after another. I have seen some very questionable actions by his AG ,selective prosecutions, so forth and so on.I see money being spent and troops still in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan was expanded and continues.......as best I can tell just an extension of Bush policies........... Is this the first administration that this has happen,,,,,,,,,Hell no. But I refuse to buy into this whole it's Bush's fault or if the Republicans are blocking this and that as the sole or even large part of his ineptness, yes some of that is true, but the same can be truly be said for Harry Reid and the democrats in the senate, Let's not forget who had power for the first two years of his term either.

However he or Leader/ Commander in Chief and he is the person who said that he was going to change the way things operated in Washington, he hasn't......... That's not counting the economy and all the headaches that goes with that the numbers just don't substantiate the improvement that have been stated.......as cliche as it may be, we are not better off than we were when he took office and from what he and others have said thus far I don't see it getting any better with a second term...... When I was hired to go my job, I got it because my predecessor had things afu'd, hence the job opening. Now if I had the same record of success that this administration has had, do you think I would still have a job? Would, well I inherited this mess and need more time save me?

As for Romney, as I have stated before, I can't say what he may or may not do as President no one can for sure, it's just as big of a crap shoot as it was in "08 when Obama got elected. Make all the claims , accusations and half truths you want but bottom line is we wouldn't know what or how things would be until he was elected........kind or déjà vu-ish huh.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense.....its late..... Rich I agree with you as well....


If all coworkers that you needed to cooperate with you decided the day you got the new job not to cooperate with you and to sand bag you at every turn then maybe you would need more of a chance to hold onto that job and try to fix it.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 03:35 AM
quote:
quote:
I can't speak for anyone (conservative, progressive or independent). But I will speak for myself, I make my decisions based on what Obama's words and actions as well as the republicans have been thus far and by researching both sides of arguments on any given policy or debate.I try my hardest to use as impartial fact ck sites during my research along with any articles that I come across or one that may be posted on, say here. I try to vet as best I can before I make a decision one way or another.

Here's my problem with Obama, he stated he knew what he was getting into and if he didn't have things turned around in his first term, then he would/should be known as a 1 term President, or words to that effect..... Well I have followed and he even agrees that he hasn't done what he said he would......he needs more time. I have seen him do and say things that are very divisive and there have been several security leaks/issues under his watch one after another. I have seen some very questionable actions by his AG ,selective prosecutions, so forth and so on.I see money being spent and troops still in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan was expanded and continues.......as best I can tell just an extension of Bush policies........... Is this the first administration that this has happen,,,,,,,,,Hell no. But I refuse to buy into this whole it's Bush's fault or if the Republicans are blocking this and that as the sole or even large part of his ineptness, yes some of that is true, but the same can be truly be said for Harry Reid and the democrats in the senate, Let's not forget who had power for the first two years of his term either.

However he or Leader/ Commander in Chief and he is the person who said that he was going to change the way things operated in Washington, he hasn't......... That's not counting the economy and all the headaches that goes with that the numbers just don't substantiate the improvement that have been stated.......as cliche as it may be, we are not better off than we were when he took office and from what he and others have said thus far I don't see it getting any better with a second term...... When I was hired to go my job, I got it because my predecessor had things afu'd, hence the job opening. Now if I had the same record of success that this administration has had, do you think I would still have a job? Would, well I inherited this mess and need more time save me?

As for Romney, as I have stated before, I can't say what he may or may not do as President no one can for sure, it's just as big of a crap shoot as it was in "08 when Obama got elected. Make all the claims , accusations and half truths you want but bottom line is we wouldn't know what or how things would be until he was elected........kind or déjà vu-ish huh.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense.....its late..... Rich I agree with you as well....


If all coworkers that you needed to cooperate with you decided the day you got the new job not to cooperate with you and to sand bag you at every turn then maybe you would need more of a chance to hold onto that job and try to fix it.


Here is something I was thinking about today. We have had nothing but gridlock the last 2 years. It is looking more and more like the Republicans are going to win both the house and the senate. A second term for Obama is going to have to mean compromise for both sides if anything is going to get done. I'm picturing a situation like we had with Clinton. Obama has extended his hand to compromise, but the Republican weren't interested and instead just chose to block everything. Part of that might be because they felt (rightly or wrongly) that they had no chance to get anything passed in the senate, so obstructionism is all they had left. If the Republicans have both houses I think they will be more willing to compromise to get some of what they want. We'll see. It worked during the Clinton years, and they would no longer have a goal to make Obama a one term president.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 04:18 AM

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 08:49 AM
I will hit some of your original list...


1) I don't want to empower my government representation to work toward a collective good.

** This was hit by Fujirich some. Collective good? I'm all for proposals that help everyone, but I'm not for proposals that hurt one group of people to help another.

2) That all sounds sweet, but it's not fair to ask the rich to pay for it.

** We have a progressive tax system already. The rich do pay more taxes. Do you really expect this country to continue to prosper if we keep adding a heavier and heavier load on the successful citizens?

3) I don't believe he really wants to accomplish these things.

** I think he wants to accomplish what he says, but I think he is going about accomplishing some of those things the wrong way.

4) I like the sounds of it, but I don't think these policies will really help me.

** See #5

5) I don't want anyone lending me a hand, nor do I want my representation to address those that need one.

** I don't look for government to help me, but I realize that might change. There obviously are people that need help and there is a need for the government to provide help. It should be a safety net though, not a way of life. The gov't "help" probably hurts more people than it helps. The dependance gets passed down from generation to generation. Also, there is only so much a gov't can do.

6) I want to keep as much of my $$ as possible and believe that the republicans will help me do that even after they cut taxes on the wealthy.

** See #7

7) I make over 250,000 and this is BS.

** I don't, but I often work 16 hour days and weekends, have a pile of student loan dept, and have taken on enormous risk to start a business, all in the hopes of one day being successful. Yes, I want to make more than $250,000. If I do, then I should be taxed more than what I am taxed now, but our tax system already does that.

Say I work my ass off and become a millionaire on day. Why does the gov't think they are entitled to half of my wealth when I die? Did I not earn that through my sacrifice and hard work?

8) Citizens should only help other citizens through their church, charity, or by being a good Samaritan.....not through the democratic process.

** As previously mentioned, there is a need for some gov't help. Most help should come from other citizens and neighbors though. That would be great for this country. Instead, the gov't will not let certain groups help citizens. Why not, the gov't can't do it all.


Look at the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. Too many people that are dependent on the government just waiting for big brother to save them. There is a limit to what the gov't can do. Now, look at the Mississippi Gulf Coast after Katrina, Nashville after the major flooding a few years back, the flooding in areas of Louisiana after Isaac, etc. Less people in those areas are dependent on the gov't and they were able to help each other. They did not riot or go around stealing things, they helped themselves and their neighbors.

9) Cooperation and building partnerships with other countries is for weenies.

** No, I think that is a good thing.

10) Romney is going to really streamline the government and cut waste and spending so that we get this debt under control; This clown is kidding himself with his plan.

** Is that not what Romney did for a living before going into politics? Go into a company and try to figure out a way to make is successful (And yes, sometimes that means cutting jobs). That is obviously what he is good at. Why is it bad to have a successful businessman as President?

11) He thinks he's so smart and better than me.

** No, I don't think that.

[Edited on 9/7/2012 by J-MAC]

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 09:14 AM
What I am thinking is not on your list

I am thinking "Man all this guy has done is spend money that does not exist, he has accomplished nothing, his ideas do not represent the whole of the country only people living in large cities or large populated areas, he hands out way to much in entitlement programs for people who do not deserve it, I do not think he has my best interests at heart in regards to Immigration laws, and his healthcare program is a freekin joke I do not want it and neither does anyone I know. He is anti gun and does not understand the 2nd amendment nor does he care about the people that do, and he represents liberal thinking which to me is a government way to big and way to much in the peoples business, I wish he had accomplished more and the country was in better shape than when he started I know he got a raw deal and inherited a mess but he has failed miserably in my eyes... That is what I was thinking when he was giving his speech.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 10:00 AM
......Jim Jones?
 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 10:16 AM
I worry that so many fall for his BS. Not only enough to vote for him one time, but twice?
 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 10:48 AM
quote:
You're just saying that because Obama gave a really good speech and Romney's speech sucked.


That is definitely a biased opinion, but you are certainly entitled to it.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 10:52 AM
I didn't watch it. I played guitar with the TV muted and the Pitt-Cincy game on.

But when I hear him, I consider him to be the most arrogant, narcissistic, and condescending individual that has ever held public office.

He is waaaayyyy too **** ing proud of himself.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 10:55 AM
BTW, I suck at guitar, having taken a nearly 30 yr hiatus from practicing.

But here is a quote I imagine has been muttered over and over again.

"Thank God for Barack Obama." - Jimmy Carter

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 11:05 AM
What are those of you on the right thinking when the President speaks?

I'm thinking, Business as usual. Nothing new or different about this President at all. he was going to be so different, He was going to be responsible for so much change. Here is a man who was elected to arguably the most powerful position in the world, with so little political experience...(I believe he was a State Senator?)...his platform had to be based on what he was going to do, not what he had accomplished.

It just sounds old already.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 11:07 AM
I don't watch these things as I have a low tolerance for nausea. However I imagine my thoughts would be to quote the late great Mary McCartyh (talking about Lillian Hellman) "Every word out of his mouth is a lie including 'and' and 'the'.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 11:10 AM
quote:
quote:
I can't speak for anyone (conservative, progressive or independent). But I will speak for myself, I make my decisions based on what Obama's words and actions as well as the republicans have been thus far and by researching both sides of arguments on any given policy or debate.I try my hardest to use as impartial fact ck sites during my research along with any articles that I come across or one that may be posted on, say here. I try to vet as best I can before I make a decision one way or another.

Here's my problem with Obama, he stated he knew what he was getting into and if he didn't have things turned around in his first term, then he would/should be known as a 1 term President, or words to that effect..... Well I have followed and he even agrees that he hasn't done what he said he would......he needs more time. I have seen him do and say things that are very divisive and there have been several security leaks/issues under his watch one after another. I have seen some very questionable actions by his AG ,selective prosecutions, so forth and so on.I see money being spent and troops still in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan was expanded and continues.......as best I can tell just an extension of Bush policies........... Is this the first administration that this has happen,,,,,,,,,Hell no. But I refuse to buy into this whole it's Bush's fault or if the Republicans are blocking this and that as the sole or even large part of his ineptness, yes some of that is true, but the same can be truly be said for Harry Reid and the democrats in the senate, Let's not forget who had power for the first two years of his term either.

However he or Leader/ Commander in Chief and he is the person who said that he was going to change the way things operated in Washington, he hasn't......... That's not counting the economy and all the headaches that goes with that the numbers just don't substantiate the improvement that have been stated.......as cliche as it may be, we are not better off than we were when he took office and from what he and others have said thus far I don't see it getting any better with a second term...... When I was hired to go my job, I got it because my predecessor had things afu'd, hence the job opening. Now if I had the same record of success that this administration has had, do you think I would still have a job? Would, well I inherited this mess and need more time save me?

As for Romney, as I have stated before, I can't say what he may or may not do as President no one can for sure, it's just as big of a crap shoot as it was in "08 when Obama got elected. Make all the claims , accusations and half truths you want but bottom line is we wouldn't know what or how things would be until he was elected........kind or déjà vu-ish huh.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense.....its late..... Rich I agree with you as well....


If all coworkers that you needed to cooperate with you decided the day you got the new job not to cooperate with you and to sand bag you at every turn then maybe you would need more of a chance to hold onto that job and try to fix it.


Pete that has been a part of my job since I reached the level I have and I am expected to know how to overcome those obstacles at this point in my career. While I realize we are talking about way different scales it all boils down to leadership and willingness to find a way to work with those that are working against them. So,to answer your question, no it would not be an excuse that would save my job as it is expected of me.


[Edited on 9/7/2012 by er1016]

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 11:26 AM
quote:
You're just saying that because Obama gave a really good speech and Romney's speech sucked.

I didn't watch either one so I enjoyed them both equally.

I will say that I think Obama is generally a very eloquent and engaging speaker, while Romney usually seems a bit stiff. Then again, while public speaking skills certainly are important in campaigning they aren't really an indicator of one's ability to govern.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 11:47 AM
What never ceases to amaze me is you can take an accomplished social lawyer, professor (Obama) and an accomplished business owner (Romney) put them into office and instantaneously both of them accomplish nothing except write great speeches. All politicians agendas are their own - period.

It doesn't matter who is in office, it is the citizens of the country that drive the economy and when that economy starts to move in the right direction, which it eventually will one of those two fools will claim they did it!!

When the economy improves, social programs will be more affordable, debt will be reduced, taxes will drop etc.

NOW, taxes must go up on big business and high earners, sin taxes must go up and military spending must be reduced. At the same time, government programs must be cut, slashed actually and small businesses must be heavily incented (via no taxation and grants) to get the economy moving again.

F*ck the corporate tax loopholes etc., repatriate jobs etc etc.

Of course I could go on but it is pointless, because all the agendas of the individual politicians out there take precedence over common sense. To that end it doesn't matter who gets elected, until those egos are left at the door the free world will continue to muddle through.............sorry for the rant!

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:10 PM
quote:
What never ceases to amaze me is you can take an accomplished social lawyer, professor (Obama) and an accomplished business owner (Romney) put them into office and instantaneously both of them accomplish nothing except write great speeches. All politicians agendas are their own - period.

It doesn't matter who is in office, it is the citizens of the country that drive the economy and when that economy starts to move in the right direction, which it eventually will one of those two fools will claim they did it!!

When the economy improves, social programs will be more affordable, debt will be reduced, taxes will drop etc.

NOW, taxes must go up on big business and high earners, sin taxes must go up and military spending must be reduced. At the same time, government programs must be cut, slashed actually and small businesses must be heavily incented (via no taxation and grants) to get the economy moving again.

F*ck the corporate tax loopholes etc., repatriate jobs etc etc.

Of course I could go on but it is pointless, because all the agendas of the individual politicians out there take precedence over common sense. To that end it doesn't matter who gets elected, until those egos are left at the door the free world will continue to muddle through.............sorry for the rant!

Great rant, actually. Thanks. Come to the U.S. and run for office. You have my vote.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:14 PM
All I think about when Romney speaks is 'we're so f*cked if this guy gets elected!'

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:15 PM
Not surprisingly Bob, the rant works for Canada and any of the industrialized countries around the world. Right now, you are in the throw's of an election so the spotlight is on the US..........

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:17 PM
quote:
All I think about when Romney speaks is 'we're so f*cked if this guy gets elected!'

Ann, we're so f*cked either way. Not until people let go of their partisan political beliefs and start to look at the overall picture will we be able to affect change.

 

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  posted on 9/7/2012 at 12:19 PM
what i find amazing about politics and people on different sides of the coin is that the vast majority of us, despite our different beliefs, would love each others company.

i know that bhawk and i would go to soccer matches together. i'd grab a coffee with fujirich. i have a feeling that i would soak up story after story from bigann.

and yet we argue and debate on boards like this and we may not change each others opinion.

to answer the question placed, i believe very little in what obama said at the convention. and i believe very little of what romney said.

i will pay attention to the debates. speeches are a dime a dozens. actions speak louder than words. i would judge each candidate by his previous record.

 

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