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Author: Subject: Why You can't score concert tix

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 5/31/2013 at 09:33 AM
Why can’t you score concert tix? Maybe because as many as 80 percent of seats are never put on sale
By CLAIRE ATKINSON

Last Updated: 9:57 AM, May 31, 2013

Posted: 11:58 PM, May 30, 2013

Fans who were shut out of One Direction’s sold-out July 2 concert at the Izod Center were bound to be disappointed.

Even before the tickets went on sale to the public, only a fraction of the 13,687 seats — just 4,474 tickets — were made available to ordinary fans. The vast majority had already been earmarked.

While fans are largely left in the dark about ticket distribution, the majority of tickets are allocated to the artists, talent agencies, record labels, tour sponsors and fan clubs, according to the Fan Freedom Project, a Washington DC-based coalition backed by secondary market seller StubHub.

“Fan clubs and credit cards get thousands of tickets and they’re not all making their way to the hard core fan,” said Dean Budnick, co-author of “Ticket Masters,” a book about ticketing practices.

One Direction isn’t the only act breaking hearts. In March, singer Pink made only 16 percent of tickets — a measly 2,693 out of a total of 16,823 — available for sale at the Izod Center, according to Fan Freedom, which has been waging a campaign to show how widespread the practice of ticket holds is.

As the $4.7 billion concert season heats up, fans are increasingly venting about instantly sold-out concerts, including a host of big-name acts like Justin Timberlake, Beyonce, Rihanna and Bruno Mars.

The rise of the secondary market is giving artists new incentive to skim tickets off the top and resell them at a markup.

“The artists have come to see the extent to which people are using these secondary markets and how much money can be made,” Budnick said.

One associate of a big-name star told The Post that the artist would grab the first five rows of his tour and sell them through brokers to make another $50,000.

Fans are often unhappy to learn that the artists are complicit in the ticket sales process.

One concert-goer, Annie Hutchinson, who tried to buy tickets for One Direction and Taylor Swift, complained when she found the tickets available right away on StubHub and Craigslist at a higher price.

“[It] left a bad taste in my mouth, and I refused to buy something for more than face value,” she wrote on Fan Freedom’s website. “Something needs to be done about this scam.”

One executive close to Ticketmaster, the largest concert ticket seller, said that holds for artists are usually part of their contracts.

This person also said the Fan Freedom data wasn’t representative of the entire business and that holds typically account for closer to 20 percent of the general sale as opposed to 80 percent.

Another concert executive added that “holds” weren’t part of a black market and that fans had to be smarter about it by “friending” artists and Ticketmaster and signing up for e-mails so they had many chances at ticket releases.

“You have to put a little work into it,” said this person.

Chris Grimm, a spokesman for the Fan Freedom Project, told The Post, “Don’t come down on fans when they can’t go to a show, while you are the one pushing the tickets.”

Grimm blasted Ticketmaster and others for blaming shadowy “bots,” or computer programs, for helping brokers buy up all the tickets and resell them on the secondary market.

“They love to point their finger at other people, at automated bots,” he said.

“They should also be looking in the mirror at their own ticketing practices.”

One of Taylor Swift’s tour dates in Florida in April held back 86 percent of tickets. The Orlando Sentinel reported that only 1,740 tickets were for general on-sale out of 12,118 tickets. The management company and the promoter got 3,700 tickets, while more than 5,700 were for credit card holders and other “insider” deals.

Gary Bongiovanni, who tracks the concert business at Pollstar, told The Post that the issue is most pressing in New York and in Los Angeles, where most of the music industry and the media that covers it reside.

“I don’t know how it can get much worse when they do the public on-sale of 5,000 in a venue of 15,000 to 20,000,” he said.

The availability of face value tickets to music insiders is “kind of a joke,” said one veteran music industry executive.

“I can get tickets at face value for just about anyone, and there has to be another 100 to 200 people just like me. Is it unfair? Yeah, but it’s a nod and wink, an accommodation of people involved in the tour.”

However, the problem of excessive holds is one that few in the industry will take full responsibility for. One industry executive said the practice has some benefits, pointing out that big credit card companies, for instance, underwrite tours and help bring down overall ticket prices.

This person also said that artists try to protect fans by holding back tickets for their own fan clubs, although some charge a fee as do most credit cards.

Will Flaherty, a spokesman for SeatGeek, a company that searches other sites for tickets, told The Post: “It’s widely known here that US concert promoters will frequently work with brokers to offload tickets at a premium and split the proceeds after the fact.”

“Marketing messages say they go on sale on sale at 10 a.m. They are lies. Marketing is setting people up for disappointment.”

He says hold-backs prevent regular folks from getting a fair shot. “The distribution is just broken.”

catkinson@nypost.com

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 5/31/2013 at 09:57 AM
Ineresting. So the artists want to make MORE money. Imagine that. Just read an article on Kid Rock doing this very thing, so it's becoming more well known. As long as people are willing to pay more, it will continue. I've never paid over cost, and never will and I've been to over a thousand concerts. Matter of fact, I often pay LESS than cost. Seen my share of idiots paying exhorbitant prices. Since cd sales are way down, not surprised the artists got in on it as well, but would be surprised if bands like Furthur, ABB, Pearl Jam, etc. were doing it.

 

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  posted on 5/31/2013 at 10:10 AM
I'm still steamed about the 40th anniversary Beacon run. To reopen an old wound, I missed the presale because I was out of town working. I was online the VERY SECOND the general sale began. I accepted the first seats that popped up. When I hit the check out button, I found myself on the website of TicketsNow - the ugly, evil step sister of TicketMaster.

The tickets that were priced at $90.00 were now going to cost $138.00.

As a seasoned realist, there is nothing that anybody can say to me to convince me that the band was not at least partially compliant in this activity. How can TicketMaster/TicketsNow carry out something like this without the artist's permission?

Perhaps they're just keeping up with the ever-changing times, but TicketMaster continues to find ways to inconvenience music fans. I tried to buy pre-sale tickets for a show for a friend just last week (friend was busy working).

I found good seats to the show and was ready to apply my credit card to the purchase. That's when I noticed the new "ticketless" system.

The ticketless system involves swiping the credit card used to purchase the tickets at the gate at showtime. Obviously I'm not going to give my credit card to anyone else. Purchasing the tickets for my friend was now not an option.

The latter portion of my post leads to another issue: why/how does TicketMaster charge CONVENIENCE FEES for tickets that they no longer print out and mail? In this instance, I was not even given the option of printing my tickets at home.

Lastly, these ticket selling conglomerates make all or most of their money on the HUGE acts that play mainly arenas. As I get older, I find these venues to be rather fan unfriendly. Unless you're lucky enough to land seats in the first 10 - 20 rows (either you can afford the VIP packages or your daddy works for TicketMaster?) - the effect is not unlike watching a show from far off. The connection between artist and music lover just isn't there.

My own decision is to NEVER buy tickets from a scalper - be it the guy in front of the venue or TicketMaster via TicketsNow.

 

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  posted on 5/31/2013 at 11:43 AM
the only way to stop this would be if everyone, or at least almost everyone, stopped buying tix on the secondary market.
Unfortunately, a snowball has a better chance in hell

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/31/2013 at 10:52 PM
Closer to home. What is with the Brothers selling these golden circle tickets at $300.00 and up?

 

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  posted on 6/1/2013 at 02:33 AM
Haven't really ran into this problem. I got tickets to the shows I want to see no problem

 

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  posted on 6/1/2013 at 06:37 AM
This problem has many levels.

1 - I think the artists selling "Premium" seats is fine. The market has shown what these seats will bear and better the artists make the money than individuals who have not created the music - them selling them on the secondary market, however, is not OK

2 - The only way to stop scalping is the ID at the gate thing; and as someone pointed out we sometimes get tickets for friends. And; I've gotten sick and had to sell tickets at the last minute. We can't have it both ways.

3 - The better the promoters become at pricing tickets the less successful the secondary market. No one was making money at the Beacon run; Paul McCartney tickets are breaking even; tickets for the Stones in Newark were going for half price the night of the show. For the Tom Petty shows, however, it looks like the tickets could have commanded a higher price. Accurate pricing is the solution to the problem.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2013 at 07:17 AM
And to add salt to the wound...

Concert Industry Struggles With ‘Bots’ That Siphon Off Tickets

“Bots,” computer programs used by scalpers, are a hidden part of a miserable ritual that plays out online nearly every week in which tickets to hot shows seem to vanish instantly.

Long a mere nuisance to the live music industry, these cheap and widely available programs are now perhaps its most reviled foe, frustrating fans and feeding a multibillion-dollar secondary market for tickets.

According to Ticketmaster, bots have been used to buy more than 60 percent of the most desirable tickets for some shows; in a recent lawsuit, the company accused one group of scalpers of using bots to request up to 200,000 tickets a day.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/business/media/bots-that-siphon-off-ticke ts-frustrate-concert-promoters.html?hp&_r=0

 

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  posted on 6/1/2013 at 09:26 AM
I hate those bots; I used to pride myself on being "quick-on-the-trigger" on ticketmaster. Half the time I can't read the f**ng words/letters anymore they are so Salvador Dali like
 

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  posted on 6/1/2013 at 09:36 AM
I've been taking my son to Lollapalooza for years for his birthday, and I fear the promoters started limiting tickets through the primary market. Nearly 100,000 people attend per day, and 3-day passes vanished in minutes. Luckily managed to get them this year, but most of the people we usually meet up with didn't.

 

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  posted on 6/1/2013 at 09:43 AM
quote:
I've been taking my son to Lollapalooza for years for his birthday, and I fear the promoters started limiting tickets through the primary market. Nearly 100,000 people attend per day, and 3-day passes vanished in minutes. Luckily managed to get them this year, but most of the people we usually meet up with didn't.


Most of the festivals, however, no longer sell "3 day passes" that can be divvied up to sell as individuals anymore. Makes it harder for the scalpers; but when they do wristbands makes it impossible for friends to split a pass.

 

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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 09:51 AM
How Much Is Michael Bolton Worth to You?
The Secret Science of Scalping

Most concertgoers don’t usually consider ticket prices as incredibly low.

After barely keeping up with inflation for decades, concert prices have risen wildly since 1996, or around the time when baby boomers, who helped start the industry, aged into a lot more disposable income. (It was also around this time that Internet piracy made the music industry more reliant on concert revenues.)

These days, prices can seem incredibly high. Barbra Streisand, who charged more than $1,000 for some seats at a concert in Rome, inspired so much anger that she canceled the show.

Yet to an economist, the very existence of scalpers and companies like StubHub proves that tickets are far too cheap to balance supply and demand.

Generally speaking, artists who charged a lot more for the best 1,000 or so seats would reduce the incentive for scalpers to buy these tickets; it would also allow artists to charge even less for the rest of the seats in the house.

Read full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/magazine/the-secret-science-of-scalping-t ickets.html?_r=0

 

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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 11:09 AM
OOOGIE

Agree with you as I've posted above. Well priced (meaning what the market will bear not cheap) kill the scalpers as the profit goes to the producers and the artists. Much better system than having to show your credit card to get premium seats at will call; we've all had a change of heart or last minute illness.

In recent years I feel that the Beacon run has not been a scalpers paradise; tickets I guess are accurately priced

 

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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 11:16 AM
quote:
How Much Is Michael Bolton Worth to You?
The Secret Science of Scalping

Most concertgoers don’t usually consider ticket prices as incredibly low.

After barely keeping up with inflation for decades, concert prices have risen wildly since 1996, or around the time when baby boomers, who helped start the industry, aged into a lot more disposable income. (It was also around this time that Internet piracy made the music industry more reliant on concert revenues.)

These days, prices can seem incredibly high. Barbra Streisand, who charged more than $1,000 for some seats at a concert in Rome, inspired so much anger that she canceled the show.

Yet to an economist, the very existence of scalpers and companies like StubHub proves that tickets are far too cheap to balance supply and demand.

Generally speaking, artists who charged a lot more for the best 1,000 or so seats would reduce the incentive for scalpers to buy these tickets; it would also allow artists to charge even less for the rest of the seats in the house.

Read full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/magazine/the-secret-science-of-scalping-t ickets.html?_r=0


The one fallacy in this argument, is that between the artists/producers and others taking tickets out of the reach of the general public and by the scalpers ability to buy large quantities of remaining premium seats, they create their own scarcity. It's a direct means of manipulating the market to raise prices.

 

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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 11:35 AM
quote:
quote:
How Much Is Michael Bolton Worth to You?
The Secret Science of Scalping

Most concertgoers don’t usually consider ticket prices as incredibly low.

After barely keeping up with inflation for decades, concert prices have risen wildly since 1996, or around the time when baby boomers, who helped start the industry, aged into a lot more disposable income. (It was also around this time that Internet piracy made the music industry more reliant on concert revenues.)

These days, prices can seem incredibly high. Barbra Streisand, who charged more than $1,000 for some seats at a concert in Rome, inspired so much anger that she canceled the show.

Yet to an economist, the very existence of scalpers and companies like StubHub proves that tickets are far too cheap to balance supply and demand.

Generally speaking, artists who charged a lot more for the best 1,000 or so seats would reduce the incentive for scalpers to buy these tickets; it would also allow artists to charge even less for the rest of the seats in the house.

Read full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/magazine/the-secret-science-of-scalping-t ickets.html?_r=0


The one fallacy in this argument, is that between the artists/producers and others taking tickets out of the reach of the general public and by the scalpers ability to buy large quantities of remaining premium seats, they create their own scarcity. It's a direct means of manipulating the market to raise prices.


Not so sure about that; when the "Platinum" and "Gold" packages don't sell they get thrown back in at a lower price. Best system as they "gauge" demand and then adjust. I see uppers at Jones Beach thrown out for 1/2 price specials all the time.

Some concerts in smaller venues have tried flexible plans where ticket price is adjusted in response to demand

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 12:53 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
How Much Is Michael Bolton Worth to You?
The Secret Science of Scalping

Most concertgoers don’t usually consider ticket prices as incredibly low.

After barely keeping up with inflation for decades, concert prices have risen wildly since 1996, or around the time when baby boomers, who helped start the industry, aged into a lot more disposable income. (It was also around this time that Internet piracy made the music industry more reliant on concert revenues.)

These days, prices can seem incredibly high. Barbra Streisand, who charged more than $1,000 for some seats at a concert in Rome, inspired so much anger that she canceled the show.

Yet to an economist, the very existence of scalpers and companies like StubHub proves that tickets are far too cheap to balance supply and demand.

Generally speaking, artists who charged a lot more for the best 1,000 or so seats would reduce the incentive for scalpers to buy these tickets; it would also allow artists to charge even less for the rest of the seats in the house.

Read full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/magazine/the-secret-science-of-scalping-t ickets.html?_r=0


The one fallacy in this argument, is that between the artists/producers and others taking tickets out of the reach of the general public and by the scalpers ability to buy large quantities of remaining premium seats, they create their own scarcity. It's a direct means of manipulating the market to raise prices.


Not so sure about that; when the "Platinum" and "Gold" packages don't sell they get thrown back in at a lower price. Best system as they "gauge" demand and then adjust. I see uppers at Jones Beach thrown out for 1/2 price specials all the time.

Some concerts in smaller venues have tried flexible plans where ticket price is adjusted in response to demand


Even if unsold VIP tickets are eventually released at lower prices, by virtue of holding back those seats at the start of the sale, it reduces the number of tickets remaining and thus creates a scarcity for the remaining seats, to help keep prices high.

 

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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 02:08 PM
When the recent Tom Petty Beacon shows went onsale, my girlfriend was at her work computer 5 minutes before they went onsale and waited till 10 and checked all 5 shows....all of them were sold out before 10:01.

Unfortunately, because we weren't missing something as special as that, Stubhub was the "solution".

Sucks.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 02:27 PM
quote:
When the recent Tom Petty Beacon shows went onsale, my girlfriend was at her work computer 5 minutes before they went onsale and waited till 10 and checked all 5 shows....all of them were sold out before 10:01.

Unfortunately, because we weren't missing something as special as that, Stubhub was the "solution".

Sucks.


If music fans had some form of organization among themselves, they could be the solution to this ever-unstopable issue. If we had some solidarity among us, we could send the message that we will not pay one red cent over original price. As far as I'm concerned the scalpers can eat paper and the bands can play to chairs. Of course, this will never happen.

 

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People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 02:35 PM
quote:
When the recent Tom Petty Beacon shows went onsale, my girlfriend was at her work computer 5 minutes before they went onsale and waited till 10 and checked all 5 shows....all of them were sold out before 10:01.

Unfortunately, because we weren't missing something as special as that, Stubhub was the "solution".

Sucks.


Got great seats through the fan club presale - unlike ABB it was $50 to join. Again - better the money go to Tom

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 04:39 PM
quote:
quote:
When the recent Tom Petty Beacon shows went onsale, my girlfriend was at her work computer 5 minutes before they went onsale and waited till 10 and checked all 5 shows....all of them were sold out before 10:01.

Unfortunately, because we weren't missing something as special as that, Stubhub was the "solution".

Sucks.


Got great seats through the fan club presale - unlike ABB it was $50 to join. Again - better the money go to Tom


I am not a Petty fan, but I joined the fan club to get seats when the ABB toured with him. I was offered much better seats through the Petty fan club than the Peach Corps. To his further credit, that same year, he cancelled the purchases of a fan club pre-sale that was hacked by scalpers, and did it over again to keep the scalpers out.

 

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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 05:11 PM
quote:
quote:
When the recent Tom Petty Beacon shows went onsale, my girlfriend was at her work computer 5 minutes before they went onsale and waited till 10 and checked all 5 shows....all of them were sold out before 10:01.

Unfortunately, because we weren't missing something as special as that, Stubhub was the "solution".

Sucks.


Got great seats through the fan club presale - unlike ABB it was $50 to join. Again - better the money go to Tom


If you don't mind me asking, what seats did you get through Petty's presale?

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 05:34 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
When the recent Tom Petty Beacon shows went onsale, my girlfriend was at her work computer 5 minutes before they went onsale and waited till 10 and checked all 5 shows....all of them were sold out before 10:01.

Unfortunately, because we weren't missing something as special as that, Stubhub was the "solution".

Sucks.


Got great seats through the fan club presale - unlike ABB it was $50 to join. Again - better the money go to Tom


If you don't mind me asking, what seats did you get through Petty's presale?


believe it was row f 9/11 for thursday night.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/4/2013 at 09:13 PM
you can see a lot of great bands in your local venues who will play their asses off for less than 10 bucks...

and believe me, they appreciate your support

 

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