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Author: Subject: Juror: Zimmerman 'got away with murder' but had to be acquitted

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  posted on 7/25/2013 at 11:50 PM
The jury even thought it was murder....

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 05:13 AM
It's not murder within the framework of Florida's Stand Your Ground law. I'm not saying the law is right or wrong, I'm saying he was within his rights according to that law.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 07:30 AM
The juror correctly stated that despite personal opinions about what may have happened the state failed to present sufficient evidence to convict.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 08:11 AM
Someone I already knew, but trial has reinforced, is that a "not guilty" verdict does not equate to declaring someone "innocent". The OJ trial was similar in this way.

Anyway, some of this juror's comments...

"George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God. And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with," Juror B29 told ABC, according to an article posted on the network's website Thursday. "(But) the law couldn't prove it."

The juror, who used only her first name of Maddy out of concerns for her safety, told ABC that she and others on the panel felt Zimmerman was guilty, but that wasn't enough.

"You can't put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty," she said. "But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence."

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 08:50 AM
If the jurors felt they "had" to find him not guilty of murder OR manslaughter under the law, then he did not "get away" with murder. He killed someone and the jury found the act justifiable under the law according to the evidence presented. YJe civil trial may have a different outcome, since the standards of evidence and burden of proof are different. But in a criminal sense, Zimmerman is not guilty of murder.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 09:22 AM
I'm so happy you feel the jury got it right Doug....rolling eyes.....

So from this day forward we can conjure up crap in our heads based on our fears of the world....we can carry our firearms...follow innocent people and then when they get upset about being followed and retaliate we can shoot them and feel justified....

Do I have that correct....Some how this doesn't make me feel all warm and cozy inside

Did Trayvon Marin have the right to "Stand his ground" not one person has answered that question

also who followed who and who was armed? who instigated the whole scene?....

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 09:54 AM
quote:
we can carry our firearms...follow innocent people and then when they get upset about being followed and retaliate we can shoot them and feel justified....

When it becomes illegal to follow someone this will become a problem. Till then, physical retaliation is the initiating act that permits a response. Thankfully so.

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Did Trayvon Marin have the right to "Stand his ground" not one person has answered that question

It doesn't need to be answered because its irrelevant. Being followed isn't a deadly threat.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:01 AM
quote:
Being followed isn't a deadly threat.


Not even when the person following you has a gun?

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:33 AM
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Being followed isn't a deadly threat.

Not even when the person following you has a gun?

Not unless the gun is out and pointed at you.

You'd probably be surprised at how many people are in the grocery store with you and packing heat. Guys with concealed holsters, women with a gun in their purse. It's lawful in most states with a concealed permit. Is that a threat? Depends on your attitude towards guns, but not according to the law.

Do we know if Zimmerman had his gun out and pointing at Treyvon prior to Treyvon's decision to assault? I don't think we'll ever know, and without knowing for sure, we can't assume that was the case.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:33 AM
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If the jurors felt they "had" to find him not guilty of murder OR manslaughter under the law, then he did not "get away" with murder.


Are you suggesting that it is not possible for someone to commit a crime, even a murder, and still be found "not guilty" at trial?

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:43 AM
quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
we can carry our firearms...follow innocent people and then when they get upset about being followed and retaliate we can shoot them and feel justified....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


When it becomes illegal to follow someone this will become a problem. Till then, physical retaliation is the initiating act that permits a response. Thankfully so.



Thank you SO much for clarifying that. If following someone is a crime.............maybe I should have been packing 15 years ago when a Safeway assistant manager used to follow me every time I went in there around midnight in my long overcoat. And he WAS following me..........he thought I was a shoplifter. Did I throw him on the ground of the store and pound his head into the linoleum? NO. I let it go.

[Edited on 7/26/2013 by robslob]

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:44 AM
quote:
I'm so happy you feel the jury got it right Doug....rolling eyes.....

So from this day forward we can conjure up crap in our heads based on our fears of the world....we can carry our firearms...follow innocent people and then when they get upset about being followed and retaliate we can shoot them and feel justified....

Do I have that correct....Some how this doesn't make me feel all warm and cozy inside

Apparently so. You already have the "conjure up crap in your head" part down.
quote:

Did Trayvon Marin have the right to "Stand his ground" not one person has answered that question

Sure, as soon as he reasonably felt his life or limb was in jeopardy.
quote:

also who followed who and who was armed? who instigated the whole scene?....


GZ followed Martin and was armed. As to the second question, that's like asking who started the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Depends on who you ask.

As I stated in another thread, vigillantism is the next step on the road to anarchy. We are either a nation of laws, or we aren't. We either let law enforcement do what we pay them to do or we take matters into our own hands. So what do you think would serve justice here, GZ at the end of a rope while the lynch mob cheers? Both of the individuals in this case fall into the latter category and one is dead. We can't bring him back to life, but rather than learn from the mistakes of these individuals we want to keep repeating them amongst ourselves over and over. Divide and conquer. Works every time.




[Edited on 7/26/2013 by DougMacKenzie]

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:45 AM
quote:
You'd probably be surprised at how many people are in the grocery store with you and packing heat. Guys with concealed holsters, women with a gun in their purse.


Surprised? Pfft. Dude, I live in Kansas. I assume everyone is armed.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:47 AM
quote:
Divide and conquer. Works every time.


When does having opposite viewpoints become Divide and Conquer? Not being flippant, but just curious.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:50 AM
quote:
quote:
Divide and conquer. Works every time.


When does having opposite viewpoints become Divide and Conquer? Not being flippant, but just curious.

Holding opposite viewpoints and being able to discuss them is one thing. accussing people who hold the opposite viewpoint of all kinds of vile and viscious things and deserving of all manner of ill willis quite another.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:51 AM
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quote:
You'd probably be surprised at how many people are in the grocery store with you and packing heat. Guys with concealed holsters, women with a gun in their purse.


Surprised? Pfft. Dude, I live in Kansas. I assume everyone is armed.


I hear 'ya. Same here in Texas.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:53 AM
quote:
quote:
If the jurors felt they "had" to find him not guilty of murder OR manslaughter under the law, then he did not "get away" with murder.


Are you suggesting that it is not possible for someone to commit a crime, even a murder, and still be found "not guilty" at trial?

If the jurors say the "have to find the defendant not guilty based on the law", then how is it a crime?

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 10:55 AM
Following someone is a crime, it's called stalking....was Trayvon Martin being stalked...yes

GZ instigated the whole thing based on his own paranoia

Rob...did the store manager follow you out to your car armed?

Store managers are always on the lookout for shoplifting....Trayvon paid for his candy and Ice Tea

GZ lives in paranoia and caused the whole situation based on his fears...How is that so hard to follow?

To even ask if Trayvon felt threaten is like burying you head in the sand up to your A$$...he obviously felt threatened....He was on the phone with a friend wonder why this guy was following him...

Where was another incident of him attacking someone....there isn't one...Why this time....He felt threatened by a stalker who was armed

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 11:01 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Divide and conquer. Works every time.


When does having opposite viewpoints become Divide and Conquer? Not being flippant, but just curious.

Holding opposite viewpoints and being able to discuss them is one thing. accussing people who hold the opposite viewpoint of all kinds of vile and viscious things and deserving of all manner of ill willis quite another.


I do often wonder, though, how much of that is due to manipulation of the emotions of the masses by various forces or a byproduct of the way that humans are drawn to tribalism, or a combination of both.

 

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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 11:02 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
If the jurors felt they "had" to find him not guilty of murder OR manslaughter under the law, then he did not "get away" with murder.


Are you suggesting that it is not possible for someone to commit a crime, even a murder, and still be found "not guilty" at trial?

If the jurors say the "have to find the defendant not guilty based on the law", then how is it a crime?

Easy. The prosecution could have screwed up its case, or just couldn't produce enough evidence to prove its case. In any case, I think we all know that people get away with murder and other crimes, could be because they are good at lying about their version of events, or others lie for them, or they conceal/destroy evidence, or there isn't enough physical evidence, or they tamper with the jury, the list goes on.

I notice you answered my question with a question, so I'll ask again...are you suggesting that it is not possible for someone to commit a crime, even a murder, and still be found "not guilty" at trial?




[Edited on 7/26/2013 by gondicar]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 11:03 AM
quote:
Following someone is a crime, it's called stalking....was Trayvon Martin being stalked...yes



False. Stalking is a series of actions that accumulate over time.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 11:12 AM
quote:
quote:
Following someone is a crime, it's called stalking....was Trayvon Martin being stalked...yes



False. Stalking is a series of actions that accumulate over time.


wrong....intent....intent is everything in law....not the number of times you do something

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 11:27 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Following someone is a crime, it's called stalking....was Trayvon Martin being stalked...yes



False. Stalking is a series of actions that accumulate over time.


wrong....intent....intent is everything in law....not the number of times you do something


Why wasn't Zimmerman charged with stalking then? Because stalking is a crime that's committed over a period of time, not over a single incident or action. You have to be able to show a pattern to get a charge and even then it's difficult.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 11:31 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Following someone is a crime, it's called stalking....was Trayvon Martin being stalked...yes



False. Stalking is a series of actions that accumulate over time.


wrong....intent....intent is everything in law....not the number of times you do something


Why wasn't Zimmerman charged with stalking then? Because stalking is a crime that's committed over a period of time, not over a single incident or action. You have to be able to show a pattern to get a charge and even then it's difficult.


alloak is correct...this time

http://www.ehow.com/list_6369919_harassment-stalking-laws-florida.html

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/26/2013 at 11:48 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
If the jurors felt they "had" to find him not guilty of murder OR manslaughter under the law, then he did not "get away" with murder.


Are you suggesting that it is not possible for someone to commit a crime, even a murder, and still be found "not guilty" at trial?

If the jurors say the "have to find the defendant not guilty based on the law", then how is it a crime?

Easy. The prosecution could have screwed up its case, or just couldn't produce enough evidence to prove its case. In any case, I think we all know that people get away with murder and other crimes, could be because they are good at lying about their version of events, or others lie for them, or they conceal/destroy evidence, or there isn't enough physical evidence, or they tamper with the jury, the list goes on.

I notice you answered my question with a question, so I'll ask again...are you suggesting that it is not possible for someone to commit a crime, even a murder, and still be found "not guilty" at trial?
[Edited on 7/26/2013 by gondicar]


Sorry, thought my response answered your question. If the law says you have to find someone not guilty, then the state has failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty of the crime charged against you. Could you have committed the crime? Sure. Do people get away with crimes sometimes? Sure. I don't know about where you live, but the conviction rate runs about 84% here in Texas. I would say just based on that rate it is much more likely for innocent people to be found guilty than guilty people be set free. In this case, there was no way the state could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ stalked Martin with the intent of killing him and then got away with "murder"as so many here would like to believe. I'll go back to my statements regarding vigilantism; We are either a nation of laws, or we are not. I much prefer a nation of laws. I am willing to abide by them. In that sense, from what I know of this case and the law, the law was followed. I believe that everything else has a way of evening out in the end.

 

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