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Author: Subject: My Gift From Obamacare

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 9/26/2013 at 08:47 PM
Just got my notice from my insurer here in NC of what my rates are going to be under the new plan being forced on me.

For context; I started buying my own insurance about 2.5 years ago. I went with a high deductible plan since I don't believe in wasting money for all sorts of things I won't use (like 1st dollar coverage on doctor visits, prescriptions, etc). I wanted a plan that would cover me for catastrophic events - not occasional visits. At 57; I'm still pretty healthy, take no prescriptions, and have no real issues other than the normal aches and pains of getting older.

The cost for that original plan with a $5,000 deductible was $155/month. Some months months later, it renewed with a major jump to $210/month. My agent explained that they were starting to build in the costs for mandated coverage due to the first set of Obamacare regulations that were going into place. It's been at that price for the last year or so.

Today's notice brings the joyous news that my new plan will now go up to $537.82/mth. Of course, my old plan is no longer available because Obamacare has outlawed it, forcing upon me all sorts of things I don't want or need.

I hope this is happening all over the country, as the folks who pay and don't qualify for subsidies get stuck with higher costs. I hope the tide of outrage builds and is taken into the midterms, with a result that keeps our idiot President in permanent lame duck status, while he watches his single dubious achievement be attacked and torn apart. I hope the storm is just starting on the idiocy of big gov't.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 
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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/26/2013 at 09:23 PM
Sounds like exactly my deal, private plan, a few hundred bucks, catastrophic, never go to doc. This is going to suck. What will happen if you just say screw it, kill me, I'm going no insurance, work without a net? Will they bust you for that?
 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/26/2013 at 09:39 PM
i'm just curious....what do the new exchanges want to charge you?
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/26/2013 at 10:09 PM
quote:
i'm just curious....what do the new exchanges want to charge you?
It's a good question, but I don't think there will be any change. There is no competition in the NC exchange - just one insurer. The same one that just sent me the notice.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured

uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,

so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/26/2013 at 11:01 PM
The Unaffordable Care Act. $537.82 a month is a freaking house payment! Personally, I just don't see this thing surviving.

The question is how much money will be (and already has been) wasted and how much damage it will do to the economy and individuals before it collapses.

The economy is teetering on the brink as it is and Obamacare could be the knockout punch. Why more people don't realize this is mystifying.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/26/2013 at 11:53 PM
quote:
Sounds like exactly my deal, private plan, a few hundred bucks, catastrophic, never go to doc. This is going to suck. What will happen if you just say screw it, kill me, I'm going no insurance, work without a net? Will they bust you for that?


I thought I read that there is a penalty that climbs every year in costs until it is just cheaper to get insured. This must be their way of squeezing money out of the under 35 crowd who typically wouldn't be covered because they are going to live forever.....

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 12:26 AM
quote:
quote:
Sounds like exactly my deal, private plan, a few hundred bucks, catastrophic, never go to doc. This is going to suck. What will happen if you just say screw it, kill me, I'm going no insurance, work without a net? Will they bust you for that?
I thought I read that there is a penalty that climbs every year in costs until it is just cheaper to get insured. This must be their way of squeezing money out of the under 35 crowd who typically wouldn't be covered because they are going to live forever.....
That is exactly my understanding as well.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured

uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,

so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 08:07 AM
https://www.healthcare.gov/

i get mine thru work so nothing changes for me. well except for the yearly increases that have happened for the last....well forever.

since some of you pay for your own i'm curious what you'll pay now. don't forget to take into account the subsidies.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 08:19 AM
My wife owns a small business. While not required to supply insurance (less than 50 employees) I now find I have an Oct 1 deadline to "inform" the employees about the Health Exchanges.

I say it all the time - insurance should not be tied to employment

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 08:49 AM
quote:
https://www.healthcare.gov/

i get mine thru work so nothing changes for me. well except for the yearly increases that have happened for the last....well forever.

since some of you pay for your own i'm curious what you'll pay now. don't forget to take into account the subsidies.
You get it through work until your employer decides that it's easier and cheaper to stop providing insurance and tell all the employees to go get their own. Numerous businesses have started doing this, and it's inevitable that more will follow.

The subsidies comment is understandable, but concerning, almost like the guy who says he pays no income tax because he gets money back every year. Subsidies may make it cheaper for some, for a period of time. But someone's paying for that. It ain't free. That's where the real explosion in costs will come from if this plan isn't stopped. Since subsidies are available for up to 4x poverty level, just about half the country will qualify. How is it possible that we can afford the subsidy costs of health insurance for approximately half the country when we already can't afford the gov't we have?

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured

uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,

so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 08:51 AM
quote:
I say it all the time - insurance should not be tied to employment

Posted this from the Wall Street Journal in another thread, but is directly related to what you are saying. Too bad this kind of system will never get any consideration here from the GOP wonks who think it is too "socialist".



Canadians don’t understand Ted Cruz’s health-care battle
By Matt Miller, Published: September 25

When you’re being forced to endure another rabid Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) soliloquy on Obamacare’s threat to human freedom, it’s easy to forget how absurd our health-care debate seems to the rest of the civilized world. That’s why it’s bracing to check in with red-blooded, high testosterone capitalists north of the border in Canada — business leaders who love Canada’s single-payer system (a regime far to the “left” of Obamacare) and see it as perfectly consistent with free market capitalism.

Take David Beatty, a 70-year-old Toronto native who ran food processing giant Weston Foods and a holding company called the Gardiner Group during a career that has included service on more than 30 corporate boards and a recent appointment to the Order of Canada, one of the nation’s highest honors. By temperament and demeanor, Beatty is the kind of tough-minded, suffer-no-fools wealth creator who conservatives typically cheer.

Yet over breakfast in Toronto not long ago, Beatty told me how baffled he and Canadian business colleagues are when they listen to the U.S. health-care debate. He cherishes Canada’s single-payer system for its quality and cost-effectiveness (Canada boasts much lower costs per person than the United States). And don’t get him started on the system’s administrative simplicity — you just show your card at the point of service, and that’s it. Though he’s a well-to-do man who can pay for whatever care he wants, Beatty told me he’s relied on the system just as ordinary Canadians do, including for a recent knee replacement operation. The one time he went outside the system was to pay extra for a physical therapist closer to his home than the one to which he’d been assigned.

It’s just “common sense” in Beatty’s view that government takes the lead in assuring basic health security for its citizens. He’s amazed at the contortions of the debate in the United States, and wonders why big U.S. companies “want to be in the business of providing health care anyway” (“that’s a government function,” he says simply). Beatty also marvels at the way the U.S. regime’s dysfunction comes to dominate everyday conversation. He shakes his head recalling how much time and passion American friends devoted one evening to comparing notes on their various supplemental Medicare plans. Talk about your sparkling dinner conversation.

Roger Martin, another Toronto native and avowed capitalist, spent years as a senior partner at the consulting firm Monitor before becoming dean of the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto, where he recently completed a 15-year stint. He advises U.S. corporate icons like Proctor & Gamble and Steelcase. He lived in the United States for years and has experienced both systems first hand.

Martin told me that Canada’s lower spending, better outcomes and universal coverage make it superior by definition. Plus, it’s “incredibly hassle-free.” In the United States every time he took his kids in for an earache his wife spent hours fighting with the health plan or filling out reams of paperwork. In Canada, he says, “the entire administrative cost is pulling your card out of your pocket, giving it to them and putting it back.”

There’s more. Canadian divisions of multinational firms love Canada’s system because when they bid on projects they have no health costs to load in. Also, there’s no crazy “job lock” as with the employer-based system in the United States — where people with (say) a sick child cling to their job for fear of being pronounced uninsurable. His peers, he says, view the U.S. debate as “ideological and not based on economics.”

“The whole single payer thing just makes sense,” Martin adds. “You don’t spend time trying to shift costs.” It’s hardly perfect: a few folks go to the United States to jump the line on certain elective procedures, and Canada, like others, free rides on American’s investment in pharmaceutical innovation (funded by higher U.S. drug prices). But, he adds, “I literally have a hard time thinking of what would be better than a single-payer system.”

The moral of the story? Don’t let the rants of cynical demagogues like Cruz confuse you — it is entirely possible to be a freedom loving capitalist and also believe in a strong government role in health care. Remember, Obamacare features a much smaller such role than does Canada’s approach — or England’s, where Margaret Thatcher would have been chased from office for proposing anything as radically conservative as the Affordable Care Act.

One well-known billionaire told me a few years back that the right answer for the United States was single payer for basic coverage, with the ability for folks to buy additional private supplements atop that. But he won’t say this in public; the gang at the club just wouldn’t understand. Maybe when U.S. business leaders muster the common sense of their Canadian counterparts, they’ll deliver the message the Ted Cruzes of the world need to hear: sit down and shut up.

 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 08:58 AM
quote:
One well-known billionaire told me a few years back that the right answer for the United States was single payer for basic coverage, with the ability for folks to buy additional private supplements atop that.
Funny how we're being forced to do exactly the opposite by our gov't; buy premium plans at high cost whether we need or want that level of service or not.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured

uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,

so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 09:09 AM
quote:
quote:
https://www.healthcare.gov/

i get mine thru work so nothing changes for me. well except for the yearly increases that have happened for the last....well forever.

since some of you pay for your own i'm curious what you'll pay now. don't forget to take into account the subsidies.
You get it through work until your employer decides that it's easier and cheaper to stop providing insurance and tell all the employees to go get their own. Numerous businesses have started doing this, and it's inevitable that more will follow.

The subsidies comment is understandable, but concerning, almost like the guy who says he pays no income tax because he gets money back every year. Subsidies may make it cheaper for some, for a period of time. But someone's paying for that. It ain't free. That's where the real explosion in costs will come from if this plan isn't stopped. Since subsidies are available for up to 4x poverty level, just about half the country will qualify. How is it possible that we can afford the subsidy costs of health insurance for approximately half the country when we already can't afford the gov't we have?


LOL since i am the employer i don't think i have to worry about that, nor do my employees.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 09:10 AM
here try this health calculator. it works pretty good.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 09:17 AM
quote:
quote:
I say it all the time - insurance should not be tied to employment

Posted this from the Wall Street Journal in another thread, but is directly related to what you are saying. Too bad this kind of system will never get any consideration here from the GOP wonks who think it is too "socialist".



Canadians don’t understand Ted Cruz’s health-care battle
By Matt Miller, Published: September 25

When you’re being forced to endure another rabid Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) soliloquy on Obamacare’s threat to human freedom, it’s easy to forget how absurd our health-care debate seems to the rest of the civilized world. That’s why it’s bracing to check in with red-blooded, high testosterone capitalists north of the border in Canada — business leaders who love Canada’s single-payer system (a regime far to the “left” of Obamacare) and see it as perfectly consistent with free market capitalism.

Take David Beatty, a 70-year-old Toronto native who ran food processing giant Weston Foods and a holding company called the Gardiner Group during a career that has included service on more than 30 corporate boards and a recent appointment to the Order of Canada, one of the nation’s highest honors. By temperament and demeanor, Beatty is the kind of tough-minded, suffer-no-fools wealth creator who conservatives typically cheer.

Yet over breakfast in Toronto not long ago, Beatty told me how baffled he and Canadian business colleagues are when they listen to the U.S. health-care debate. He cherishes Canada’s single-payer system for its quality and cost-effectiveness (Canada boasts much lower costs per person than the United States). And don’t get him started on the system’s administrative simplicity — you just show your card at the point of service, and that’s it. Though he’s a well-to-do man who can pay for whatever care he wants, Beatty told me he’s relied on the system just as ordinary Canadians do, including for a recent knee replacement operation. The one time he went outside the system was to pay extra for a physical therapist closer to his home than the one to which he’d been assigned.

It’s just “common sense” in Beatty’s view that government takes the lead in assuring basic health security for its citizens. He’s amazed at the contortions of the debate in the United States, and wonders why big U.S. companies “want to be in the business of providing health care anyway” (“that’s a government function,” he says simply). Beatty also marvels at the way the U.S. regime’s dysfunction comes to dominate everyday conversation. He shakes his head recalling how much time and passion American friends devoted one evening to comparing notes on their various supplemental Medicare plans. Talk about your sparkling dinner conversation.

Roger Martin, another Toronto native and avowed capitalist, spent years as a senior partner at the consulting firm Monitor before becoming dean of the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto, where he recently completed a 15-year stint. He advises U.S. corporate icons like Proctor & Gamble and Steelcase. He lived in the United States for years and has experienced both systems first hand.

Martin told me that Canada’s lower spending, better outcomes and universal coverage make it superior by definition. Plus, it’s “incredibly hassle-free.” In the United States every time he took his kids in for an earache his wife spent hours fighting with the health plan or filling out reams of paperwork. In Canada, he says, “the entire administrative cost is pulling your card out of your pocket, giving it to them and putting it back.”

There’s more. Canadian divisions of multinational firms love Canada’s system because when they bid on projects they have no health costs to load in. Also, there’s no crazy “job lock” as with the employer-based system in the United States — where people with (say) a sick child cling to their job for fear of being pronounced uninsurable. His peers, he says, view the U.S. debate as “ideological and not based on economics.”

“The whole single payer thing just makes sense,” Martin adds. “You don’t spend time trying to shift costs.” It’s hardly perfect: a few folks go to the United States to jump the line on certain elective procedures, and Canada, like others, free rides on American’s investment in pharmaceutical innovation (funded by higher U.S. drug prices). But, he adds, “I literally have a hard time thinking of what would be better than a single-payer system.”

The moral of the story? Don’t let the rants of cynical demagogues like Cruz confuse you — it is entirely possible to be a freedom loving capitalist and also believe in a strong government role in health care. Remember, Obamacare features a much smaller such role than does Canada’s approach — or England’s, where Margaret Thatcher would have been chased from office for proposing anything as radically conservative as the Affordable Care Act.

One well-known billionaire told me a few years back that the right answer for the United States was single payer for basic coverage, with the ability for folks to buy additional private supplements atop that. But he won’t say this in public; the gang at the club just wouldn’t understand. Maybe when U.S. business leaders muster the common sense of their Canadian counterparts, they’ll deliver the message the Ted Cruzes of the world need to hear: sit down and shut up.



You think pretty well for a Red Sox fan; and re the other comments that follow

1 - I have been saying for years that we need national health care at a basic level with options to buy into higher levels.

2 - Small (less than 50 employee) employers are dropping out of Obamacare because of the cost of health insurance - not Obamacare. They have no obligation under the new system nor did they before to supply health coverage. It is just too expensive.

3 - it is the larger companies that will get killed as they are required to offer affordable (no more than 9.5% of gross wages for employee contribution) for their full timers. They will be making those full timers become part timers real soon.

4 - re: "minimum" coverage; that is a debate to be resolved. As long as no one is denied medical care in an emergency we are essentially socialized. Minimum coverage plans leave most of the country a serious illness away from bankruptcy. Whatever "minimum" is needs to take that into consideration

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 09:54 AM
quote:
How is it possible that we can afford the subsidy costs of health insurance for approximately half the country when we already can't afford the gov't we have?


If our government would concentrate more on wellness and less on war we could afford a whole hellofalot more.

 

____________________
Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.

Ralph Nader's Father


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 09:54 AM
quote:
You think pretty well for a Red Sox fan


Now that's funny.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 10:04 AM
quote:
You get it through work until your employer decides that it's easier and cheaper to stop providing insurance and tell all the employees to go get their own. Numerous businesses have started doing this, and it's inevitable that more will follow.


What's wrong with this? Shouldn't insurance be like every other business?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 11:29 AM
quote:
quote:
One well-known billionaire told me a few years back that the right answer for the United States was single payer for basic coverage, with the ability for folks to buy additional private supplements atop that.
Funny how we're being forced to do exactly the opposite by our gov't; buy premium plans at high cost whether we need or want that level of service or not.


Single payer is what Obama really wanted, but it would never have been allowed by the other side of the aisle because it is all about politics first, good policy last.

 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 11:31 AM
quote:
quote:
You think pretty well for a Red Sox fan


Now that's funny.


 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 11:33 AM
quote:
quote:
You get it through work until your employer decides that it's easier and cheaper to stop providing insurance and tell all the employees to go get their own. Numerous businesses have started doing this, and it's inevitable that more will follow.


What's wrong with this? Shouldn't insurance be like every other business?


Nothing is wrong it, unless it puts a crimp in their abilty to recruit and retain employees.

 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 12:01 PM
quote:
here try this health calculator. it works pretty good.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/


Using this^....My rates will rise to between 547.00 & 638.00...Monthly.

I currently pay 288.00

 

____________________

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 12:30 PM
Here is some Canadian perspective for y'all:

I run a small business and all my employees have access to our health care system.
I also have to provide a supplemental plan for Drugs, Dental, Life and Disability, Other benefits like eyes, physio, hospital care beyond the basic services etc.
To provide some insight, my average tax rate is 42%, the marginal tax rate that I am in is 47% (every dollar above a threshold). I pay $700.00 per month for my benefit package for my family.
Average wait time in emergency rooms in Ontario, 3 hours. My wife is an emerge nurse and it is so ridiculous that the weather dictates how busy her day is. If its nice she is run off her feet with the most ridiculous ailments you have ever heard of. Raining Snowing, not so much. User fees make sense to me but governments here are afraid to initiate due to the fallout from the left. I had shoulder surgery a couple of years ago. It took 3 months to diagnose, 4 months to get in for the MRI that the doctor requested another 3 months to get in to see the surgeon and I waited 6 months for the operation. A year and a half. Ludicrous to say the least. Many Americans think health care is free in Canada, it is not we pay far in excess of what you pay as your tax rates are much lower on everything. The example of the monthly preimum going to 600 from 300, I would be thrilled. If you are truley in need of emergency care no one asks if you can afford first, that is the only benefit, but we pay too much for mediocre care. My view has always been a hybrid of the two systems, but you guys spend way to much on war's and the tax system down there is just futile. I pay over $5.00 a gallon for gas and we are self sustaining in fuel. Here's what I say, put another dollar a gallon on gas, double the price of booze and smokes, legalize pot everywhere and raise personal taxes for all to our levels. You can then afford our health care, trust me ya dont want it!!

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 01:12 PM
quote:
quote:
here try this health calculator. it works pretty good.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/


Using this^....My rates will rise to between 547.00 & 638.00...Monthly.

I currently pay 288.00


My sympathies to you and others with similar increases. A lonnnnnnnngggg way from the average annual savings of $2500 that was projected. Of course, your situation is categorized under the umbrella of "anecdotal evidence." I'll give this administation credit for their ability to come up with sugar-coated phrases to hide their bulls**t. With a total disregard for the intelligence of the people they're supposed to serve. Helped along by too many fools willing to serve as their lapdogs. Embarassing.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/27/2013 at 01:16 PM
quote:
You can then afford our health care, trust me ya dont want it!!
Thank you for the street-level perspective on socialized care. Too many look over the fence and swoon with the prospect of having it here, as if it will all be unicorns and puppy kisses.

The bitchin' has only started here, as costs will go up, gov't imposition will hurt jobs, new bureaucracies will invent new ways to waste time and money, and quality will go down.

[Edited on 9/27/2013 by Fujirich]

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured

uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,

so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 
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