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Sublime Peach





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  posted on 12/17/2013 at 07:15 AM


[Edited on 9/24/2014 by jerryphilbob]

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/17/2013 at 08:19 AM
These lyrics from Monster still apply today. Sad.

The spirit was freedom and justice
And its keepers seemed generous and kind
Its leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
Now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told

Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into the noose
And it just sits there watchin'

The cities have turned into jungles
And corruption is stranglin' the land
The police force is watching the people
And the people just can't understand
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole world's got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner we can't pay the cost

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/17/2013 at 02:58 PM
An Open Letter to the People of Brazil

12/16/2013- 16h22


EDWARD SNOWDEN

Atualizado em 17/12/2013 às 08h11.

Six months ago, I stepped out from the shadows of the United States Government's National Security Agency to stand in front of a journalist's camera.

Espionage Whistleblower Edward Snowden to Seek Asylum in Brazil

I shared with the world evidence proving some governments are building a world-wide surveillance system to secretly track how we live, who we talk to, and what we say.

I went in front of that camera with open eyes, knowing that the decision would cost me family and my home, and would risk my life. I was motivated by a belief that the citizens of the world deserve to understand the system in which they live.

My greatest fear was that no one would listen to my warning. Never have I been so glad to have been so wrong. The reaction in certain countries has been particularly inspiring to me, and Brazil is certainly one of those.

At the NSA, I witnessed with growing alarm the surveillance of whole populations without any suspicion of wrongdoing, and it threatens to become the greatest human rights challenge of our time.

The NSA and other spying agencies tell us that for our own "safety" --for Dilma's "safety," for Petrobras' "safety"-- they have revoked our right to privacy and broken into our lives. And they did it without asking the public in any country, even their own.

Today, if you carry a cell phone in Sao Paolo, the NSA can and does keep track of your location: they do this 5 billion times a day to people around the world.

When someone in Florianopolis visits a website, the NSA keeps a record of when it happened and what you did there. If a mother in Porto Alegre calls her son to wish him luck on his university exam, NSA can keep that call log for five years or more.

They even keep track of who is having an affair or looking at pornography, in case they need to damage their target's reputation.

American Senators tell us that Brazil should not worry, because this is not "surveillance," it's "data collection." They say it is done to keep you safe. They're wrong.

There is a huge difference between legal programs, legitimate spying, legitimate law enforcement --where individuals are targeted based on a reasonable, individualized suspicion - and these programs of dragnet mass surveillance that put entire populations under an all-seeing eye and save copies forever.

These programs were never about terrorism: they're about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They're about power.

Many Brazilian senators agree, and have asked for my assistance with their investigations of suspected crimes against Brazilian citizens.

I have expressed my willingness to assist wherever appropriate and lawful, but unfortunately the United States government has worked very hard to limit my ability to do so --going so far as to force down the Presidential Plane of Evo Morales to prevent me from traveling to Latin America!

Until a country grants permanent political asylum, the US government will continue to interfere with my ability to speak.

Six months ago, I revealed that the NSA wanted to listen to the whole world. Now, the whole world is listening back, and speaking out, too. And the NSA doesn't like what it's hearing.

The culture of indiscriminate worldwide surveillance, exposed to public debates and real investigations on every continent, is collapsing.

Only three weeks ago, Brazil led the United Nations Human Rights Committee to recognize for the first time in history that privacy does not stop where the digital network starts, and that the mass surveillance of innocents is a violation of human rights.

The tide has turned, and we can finally see a future where we can enjoy security without sacrificing our privacy. Our rights cannot be limited by a secret organization, and American officials should never decide the freedoms of Brazilian citizens.

Even the defenders of mass surveillance, those who may not be persuaded that our surveillance technologies have dangerously outpaced democratic controls, now agree that in democracies, surveillance of the public must be debated by the public.

My act of conscience began with a statement: "I don't want to live in a world where everything that I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity or love or friendship is recorded.

That's not something I'm willing to support, it's not something I'm willing to build, and it's not something I'm willing to live under."

Days later, I was told my government had made me stateless and wanted to imprison me. The price for my speech was my passport, but I would pay it again: I will not be the one to ignore criminality for the sake of political comfort. I would rather be without a state than without a voice.

If Brazil hears only one thing from me, let it be this: when all of us band together against injustices and in defense of privacy and basic human rights, we can defend ourselves from even the most powerful systems.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 12/26/2013 at 09:07 AM
A Christmas Message from the Patriot, Snowden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOlaPGSTSwo

 

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- John Lennon

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/26/2013 at 03:23 PM
Snowden is a traitor to this country! How anyone can say otherwise is beyond me. Sure our surveillance was way over the top. But Snowden put countless lives in jeopardy who were and are PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY! To me he is just a sniveling BRAT! I hope when he returns to the states and he will, we still have the death penalty because that is what he deserves!

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/26/2013 at 03:45 PM
quote:
Snowden is a traitor to this country! How anyone can say otherwise is beyond me. Sure our surveillance was way over the top. But Snowden put countless lives in jeopardy who were and are PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY! To me he is just a sniveling BRAT! I hope when he returns to the states and he will, we still have the death penalty because that is what he deserves!


I think the issue is far more complex. Members of Congress have sworn to uphold our Constitution. Yet the domestic spying is clearly unconstitutional. We wouldn't even know if it weren't for Snowden. Shouldn't every member of the Senate Intelligence Committee be tried for treason?

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/26/2013 at 07:08 PM
I'm for it but there is no excuse for Snowden the way he did it. What a coward's way

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/26/2013 at 09:08 PM
It was his only choice.

Whistle-blowers, and anyone who threatens the carefully polished PR image of our gov't, are threats to the system. As we move further away from Constitutional authority and intent, they will be castigated as enemies of the state. With the help of most of the supposed "free" media, they will be crushed instead of listened to. The more we inch closer to tyrannical governance, the more the system will seek to silence those who raise serious questions.

We are in a time where is has become very dangerous to tell the truth and point out where gov't is wrong.

Snowden had no option, other than remaining silent.

[Edited on 12/27/2013 by Fujirich]

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/26/2013 at 10:14 PM
quote:
I hope when he returns to the states and he will, we still have the death penalty because that is what he deserves!


Overeact much? He didn't murder anyone. The death penalty is beyond extreme. Prison time, ok.

It was always inevitable for the government to evolve into this. There's no way in hell the #1 superpower in the world is going to pass up an opportunity to obtain this type of data.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2013 at 08:13 AM
Have fun living in Russia Snowden. Good bet it's real cold and miserable right now!

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2013 at 01:07 PM
A federal judge in New York ruled Friday that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of data on nearly every phone call made in the United States is legal.

Looks like Snowden falls back into the traitor catagory.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2013 at 01:35 PM
quote:
A federal judge in New York ruled Friday that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of data on nearly every phone call made in the United States is legal.

Looks like Snowden falls back into the traitor catagory.
You didn't think that gov't would stop it's own abuses, did you?

We no longer live in a country with that much morality.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2013 at 02:42 PM
quote:
A federal judge in New York ruled Friday that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of data on nearly every phone call made in the United States is legal.

Looks like Snowden falls back into the traitor catagory.


The new ruling conflicts with a previous ruling. The case will go to the Supreme Court.
Personally I feel the Patriot Act made the collection of data legal.

That said, I think the Patriot Act is unconstitutional and should be repealed. Of course, I'm just a citizen and what I think don't amount to much.


quote:
NSA collection of phone data is lawful, federal judge rules

By Sari Horwitz, Updated: Friday, December 27, 1:34 PM

A federal judge in New York ruled Friday that the massive collection of domestic telephone data brought to light by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden is lawful, rejecting a challenge to the program by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The decision conflicts with that of a U.S. District Court judge who ruled against the government early last week, finding that the NSA’s program was almost certainly unconstitutional. The divergent decisions make it more likely that the Supreme Court will make its own ruling.

In a 53-page opinion, U.S. District Judge William Pauley said Friday the legality of the program, which collects virtually all Americans’ phone records, is “ultimately a question of reasonableness,” under the Fourth Amendment and represents the U.S. government’s “counter-punch” to eliminate the al-Qaeda terrorist network.

Pauley said that if the U.S. government had the phone data collection program before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, it could have helped provide critical clues. He said that so-called telephone metadata might have permitted the NSA to notify the FBI that one of the terrorists was calling a Yemeni safe house from inside the United States.

“The government learned from its mistake and adapted to confront a new enemy: a terror network capable of orchestrating attacks across the world,” Pauley wrote. “It launched a number of counter-measures, including a bulk telephony metadata collection program — a wide net that could find and isolate gossamer contacts among suspected terrorists in an ocean of seemingly disconnected data.”

Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr said the government is “pleased the court found the NSA’s bulk telephony metadata collection program to be lawful.”

In a statement, the ACLU said it intended to appeal the case.

“We are extremely disappointed with this decision, which misinterprets the relevant statutes, understates the privacy implications of the government’s surveillance and misapplies a narrow and outdated precedent to read away core constitutional protections,” said Jameel Jaffer, an ACLU deputy legal director.

Pauley’s opinion comes 11 days after a federal judge in Washington ruled that the NSA’s collection of bulk telephony metadata is based on “almost-Orwellian technology.” In that opinion, U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon granted a request for an injunction that blocked the collection of the phone data of conservative legal activist Larry Klayman and a co-plaintiff. Leon stayed his ruling to give the government time to appeal.

As the issue plays out in the courts, Congress is debating whether the NSA’s sweeping collection of phone data should be curtailed. A panel appointed by President Obama recommended this month the NSA should no longer store the data.

 

____________________
Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.

Ralph Nader's Father


 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 12/30/2013 at 06:51 PM
quote:
Snowden put countless lives in jeopardy who were and are PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY!


If this is true this is a very serious charge. Please clarify your point, as I really don't see who Snowden put in danger, other than himself.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 09:29 AM
An auspicious start to 2014: the NYT's and I agree on something...

quote:
Edward Snowden, Whistle-Blower

Seven months ago, the world began to learn the vast scope of the National Security Agency’s reach into the lives of hundreds of millions of people in the United States and around the globe, as it collects information about their phone calls, their email messages, their friends and contacts, how they spend their days and where they spend their nights. The public learned in great detail how the agency has exceeded its mandate and abused its authority, prompting outrage at kitchen tables and at the desks of Congress, which may finally begin to limit these practices.

The revelations have already prompted two federal judges to accuse the N.S.A. of violating the Constitution (although a third, unfortunately, found the dragnet surveillance to be legal). A panel appointed by President Obama issued a powerful indictment of the agency’s invasions of privacy and called for a major overhaul of its operations.

All of this is entirely because of information provided to journalists by Edward Snowden, the former N.S.A. contractor who stole a trove of highly classified documents after he became disillusioned with the agency’s voraciousness. Mr. Snowden is now living in Russia, on the run from American charges of espionage and theft, and he faces the prospect of spending the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.

Considering the enormous value of the information he has revealed, and the abuses he has exposed, Mr. Snowden deserves better than a life of permanent exile, fear and flight. He may have committed a crime to do so, but he has done his country a great service. It is time for the United States to offer Mr. Snowden a plea bargain or some form of clemency that would allow him to return home, face at least substantially reduced punishment in light of his role as a whistle-blower, and have the hope of a life advocating for greater privacy and far stronger oversight of the runaway intelligence community.

Mr. Snowden is currently charged in a criminal complaint with two violations of the Espionage Act involving unauthorized communication of classified information, and a charge of theft of government property. Those three charges carry prison sentences of 10 years each, and when the case is presented to a grand jury for indictment, the government is virtually certain to add more charges, probably adding up to a life sentence that Mr. Snowden is understandably trying to avoid.

The president said in August that Mr. Snowden should come home to face those charges in court and suggested that if Mr. Snowden had wanted to avoid criminal charges he could have simply told his superiors about the abuses, acting, in other words, as a whistle-blower.

“If the concern was that somehow this was the only way to get this information out to the public, I signed an executive order well before Mr. Snowden leaked this information that provided whistle-blower protection to the intelligence community for the first time,” Mr. Obama said at a news conference. “So there were other avenues available for somebody whose conscience was stirred and thought that they needed to question government actions.”

In fact, that executive order did not apply to contractors, only to intelligence employees, rendering its protections useless to Mr. Snowden. More important, Mr. Snowden told The Washington Post earlier this month that he did report his misgivings to two superiors at the agency, showing them the volume of data collected by the N.S.A., and that they took no action. (The N.S.A. says there is no evidence of this.) That’s almost certainly because the agency and its leaders don’t consider these collection programs to be an abuse and would never have acted on Mr. Snowden’s concerns.

In retrospect, Mr. Snowden was clearly justified in believing that the only way to blow the whistle on this kind of intelligence-gathering was to expose it to the public and let the resulting furor do the work his superiors would not. Beyond the mass collection of phone and Internet data, consider just a few of the violations he revealed or the legal actions he provoked:

? The N.S.A. broke federal privacy laws, or exceeded its authority, thousands of times per year, according to the agency’s own internal auditor.

? The agency broke into the communications links of major data centers around the world, allowing it to spy on hundreds of millions of user accounts and infuriating the Internet companies that own the centers. Many of those companies are now scrambling to install systems that the N.S.A. cannot yet penetrate.

? The N.S.A. systematically undermined the basic encryption systems of the Internet, making it impossible to know if sensitive banking or medical data is truly private, damaging businesses that depended on this trust.

? His leaks revealed that James Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, lied to Congress when testifying in March that the N.S.A. was not collecting data on millions of Americans. (There has been no discussion of punishment for that lie.)

? The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court rebuked the N.S.A. for repeatedly providing misleading information about its surveillance practices, according to a ruling made public because of the Snowden documents. One of the practices violated the Constitution, according to the chief judge of the court.

? A federal district judge ruled earlier this month that the phone-records-collection program probably violates the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution. He called the program “almost Orwellian” and said there was no evidence that it stopped any imminent act of terror.

The shrill brigade of his critics say Mr. Snowden has done profound damage to intelligence operations of the United States, but none has presented the slightest proof that his disclosures really hurt the nation’s security. Many of the mass-collection programs Mr. Snowden exposed would work just as well if they were reduced in scope and brought under strict outside oversight, as the presidential panel recommended.

When someone reveals that government officials have routinely and deliberately broken the law, that person should not face life in prison at the hands of the same government. That’s why Rick Ledgett, who leads the N.S.A.’s task force on the Snowden leaks, recently told CBS News that he would consider amnesty if Mr. Snowden would stop any additional leaks. And it’s why President Obama should tell his aides to begin finding a way to end Mr. Snowden’s vilification and give him an incentive to return home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/opinion/edward-snowden-whistle-blower.htm l?hp&rref=opinion&_r=1&


 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 10:00 AM
quote:
We are in a time where is has become very dangerous to tell the truth and point out where gov't is wrong.

In that regard, this time is no different than any other time. In fact, there may have been worse times (Joseph McCarthy).

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 10:30 AM
quote:
quote:
We are in a time where is has become very dangerous to tell the truth and point out where gov't is wrong.

In that regard, this time is no different than any other time. In fact, there may have been worse times (Joseph McCarthy).


McCarthy wasn't after people that criticized the government. Overwhelmingly, his targets were people working within the government.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 10:31 AM
So all those actors that were blacklisted worked in the government? Who knew?

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 10:46 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
We are in a time where is has become very dangerous to tell the truth and point out where gov't is wrong.

In that regard, this time is no different than any other time. In fact, there may have been worse times (Joseph McCarthy).


McCarthy wasn't after people that criticized the government. Overwhelmingly, his targets were people working within the government.

Fair enough, and although that is a fairly thin distinction (didn't Snowden work within the gov't?) I was really referring to the Joseph McCarthy era, to include the House Committee on Un-American Activities and the blacklists it created. Although I can't help but wonder what if anything McCarthy would have had to say about Snowden and his supporters and whether his "defection" to Russia would have led to any additional witchhunts or blacklists.




[Edited on 1/2/2014 by gondicar]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 10:56 AM
quote:
So all those actors that were blacklisted worked in the government? Who knew?

That blacklist was the result of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, not McCarthy's Senate committee, and is an interesting study in an of itself.

 

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I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 02:47 PM
Patriot my @ss!!!!!!!!! He is far from it!!! I don't really care about him exposing domestic eavesdropping but once he gave outside countries evidence of the policies we use internationally he became a traitor. He took an oath of secrecy and he broke that oath. If he ever steps foot on American soil again he should be tried in court and jailed when convicted. Who knows how much he has hurt us National Security wise????

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 04:57 PM
quote:
Who knows how much he has hurt us National Security wise????


”Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.”
Ben Franklin

 

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Ralph Nader's Father


 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 05:13 PM
Why did he have to give the info to foreign countries? Why not leak the story to a US media outlet? Then I'd support him 100%.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 07:28 PM
All due respect to Mr. Franklin but he wasn't around for Pearl Harbor, the 9-11-01 attacks, or the myriad of other terrorist attacks against us in the last few decades. He might think slightly different had he been.

 

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Pete

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 1/2/2014 at 09:49 PM
They use fear to make you willingly give up your freedoms. And Americans have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. They are all in. Sad.

quote:
Why not leak the story to a US media outlet?

The US media is complicit with the US Government. He couldn't turn to them. If they were doing their jobs, he wouldn't have had to do this. You don't bite the hand that is feeding you, or owns you.

 

____________________
"If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace."



- John Lennon

 
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