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Author: Subject: Those 47 republican senators must hate America... where's Rudy?

Zen Peach





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  posted on 3/9/2015 at 10:58 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/03/09/the-misguided- condescending-letter-from-republican-senators-to-iran/

As first reported by Bloomberg's Josh Rogin, a group of 47 Republican senators signed a letter addressed to "the leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran," warning them not to be too optimistic about ongoing negotiations with the Obama administration over Tehran's nuclear program. It was organized by freshman Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) and advised the Iranian leadership that "anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement."

The letter is brief, and can be read in full here. Republican lawmakers are opposed to the Obama administration's current overtures to Iran, a disagreement that was put into stark relief last week by the polarizing speech delivered by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu before a joint meeting of Congress. This is yet another tactic to scupper a potential deal.

It starts with the patronizing premise that "you may not fully understand our Constitutional system" and goes on to explain, first, that any international treaty will need to be ratified by a two-thirds vote in both chambers of Congress and that, unlike the president of the United States, senators "may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms." The message to the mullahs: don't get comfortable with any deal, because we're going to scrap it as soon as we can.

On the Lawfare blog, Harvard Law School professor Jack Goldsmith describes the letter as "embarrassing," because it's technically wrong:

The letter states that “the Senate must ratify [a treaty] by a two-thirds vote.” But as the Senate’s own web page makes clear: “The Senate does not ratify treaties. Instead, the Senate takes up a resolution of ratification, by which the Senate formally gives its advice and consent, empowering the president to proceed with ratification” (my emphasis). Or, as this outstanding 2001 CRS Report on the Senate’s role in treaty-making states (at 117): “It is the President who negotiates and ultimately ratifies treaties for the United States, but only if the Senate in the intervening period gives its advice and consent.” Ratification is the formal act of the nation’s consent to be bound by the treaty on the international plane. Senate consent is a necessary but not sufficient condition of treaty ratification for the United States. As the CRS Report notes: “When a treaty to which the Senate has advised and consented … is returned to the President,” he may “simply decide not to ratify the treaty.”

Dan Drezner, writing for Post Everything, adds that the letter may "paradoxically help Obama" by persuading Iran's leaders to hatch a successful bargain now with the United States rather than further down the road after Obama has departed. Some argue that a deal pushed through by the White House will not be that easy to overturn later, especially if it appears to be working.

Whatever its effects in Washington, the letter is almost farcically condescending in word and tone. Iran's leaders are well aware of how the United States works. The country's foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, spent the better part of a decade as the Iranian envoy to the United Nations; like many others in the Iranian cabinet, he was partly educated in the United States.

It reflects the willful ignorance on the part of many hawks in Washington who insist on seeing Iran purely as an irrational actor and a permanent regional threat. As WorldViews discussed earlier, Iran is problematic in many ways, and its regime plays a role in fueling proxy wars in parts of the Middle East. But one can argue that the same is true of Washington's chief Arab ally in the region, Saudi Arabia.

On Monday, Zarif issued a statement through Iran's U.N. mission in New York, saying "the letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy." Zarif also takes the opportunity to play the pedant:

I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States, and the conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by US domestic law. The authors may not fully understand that in international law, governments represent the entirety of their respective states, are responsible for the conduct of foreign affairs, are required to fulfil the obligations they undertake with other states and may not invoke their internal law as justification for failure to perform their international obligations.

The Obama administration and Israeli critics of Netanyahu seem to believe that it's possible to do business with the government of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, Zarif's boss. Rouhani prioritized rapprochement with the United States after his surprise election in 2013. The Republican letter echoes the grimacing and stamping of feet of another set of hard-liners opposed to negotiations -- the ones in Iran.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 06:19 AM
Maybe they just disagree with the president's stance on Iran?
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 08:03 AM
To the rest of the world it has got to look like our whole system of governing is unraveling, that we are hopelessly divided and lack the will and cohesiveness necessary to carry out our role as world leaders in diplomacy. That is a dangerous message to send. All members of our elected government are responsible for that message, and since we elect them, that means that we the people are ultimately responsible. We have got to get it together.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 08:23 AM
Why anyone would think this is a good idea is beyond me.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 08:43 AM
This was a shockingly stupid and outrageous thing to do. As an American I am angry and embarrassed by this action. Talk about overreaching!!! They have no, none, zero credibility from this point forward whenever they bring up Obama's immigration order and overreach. Tough to read some of the signatures on the letter, but it doesn't look like my Senator Susan Collins signed it, so at least I can take some solace in that I guess.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 09:35 AM
Lets see if one of our resident conservatives shows any humility and accountability and admits this was a huge mistake.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 10:12 AM
How does this imply that they hate America?
 

True Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 10:37 AM
There is a perfect example of why the United States Congress led by Republicans have an approval rating of less than 10%. They are brain dead and will never get it and keep digging themselves deeper and deeper into oblivion. They just can't do anything the proper way and make our government look futile without a modicum of unity. Disgusting, just like the Boehner/Netanyahu debacle last week.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 10:43 AM
It shows they made a foolish mistake. But not one conservative here, nor in Washington, nor anywhere, will admit it, and the potential damage it could cause.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 10:52 AM
Dawn of a new American Age. We now have two Presidents, the elected one in the White House and the highest ranking Congressional leader appointed by the opposition party.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 10:59 AM
quote:
On the Lawfare blog, Harvard Law School professor Jack Goldsmith describes the letter as "embarrassing," because it's technically wrong:

The letter states that “the Senate must ratify [a treaty] by a two-thirds vote.” But as the Senate’s own web page makes clear: “The Senate does not ratify treaties. Instead, the Senate takes up a resolution of ratification, by which the Senate formally gives its advice and consent, empowering the president to proceed with ratification” (my emphasis). Or, as this outstanding 2001 CRS Report on the Senate’s role in treaty-making states (at 117): “It is the President who negotiates and ultimately ratifies treaties for the United States, but only if the Senate in the intervening period gives its advice and consent.” Ratification is the formal act of the nation’s consent to be bound by the treaty on the international plane. Senate consent is a necessary but not sufficient condition of treaty ratification for the United States. As the CRS Report notes: “When a treaty to which the Senate has advised and consented … is returned to the President,” he may “simply decide not to ratify the treaty.”



 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 11:43 AM
quote:
To the rest of the world it has got to look like our whole system of governing is unraveling, that we are hopelessly divided and lack the will and cohesiveness necessary to carry out our role as world leaders in diplomacy. That is a dangerous message to send. All members of our elected government are responsible for that message, and since we elect them, that means that we the people are ultimately responsible. We have got to get it together.


*I view myself as more conservative than anything. If I left out a clear "this is wrong", consider it added now.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 12:30 PM
quote:
There is a perfect example of why the United States Congress led by Republicans have an approval rating of less than 10%. They are brain dead and will never get it and keep digging themselves deeper and deeper into oblivion.


I don't know about that. Their approval rating might be higher if they would ever make a stand. They promised to do so in their campaigns, but once elected they revert back to their usual cave-in act.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 01:23 PM
quote:
quote:
There is a perfect example of why the United States Congress led by Republicans have an approval rating of less than 10%. They are brain dead and will never get it and keep digging themselves deeper and deeper into oblivion.


I don't know about that. Their approval rating might be higher if they would ever make a stand. They promised to do so in their campaigns, but once elected they revert back to their usual cave-in act.


Taking a stand is one thing. They have done that for 6 years by opposing practically everything Obama has wanted to do. Now they are circumventing the president and possibly breaking the law. With all of you whining about an email account, how can you pass this off as no big deal?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 01:26 PM
quote:
With all of you whining about an email account, how can you pass this off as no big deal?



[Edited on 3/10/2015 by gondicar]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 02:15 PM
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.

Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.

This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.


[Edited on 3/10/2015 by OriginalGoober]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 02:17 PM
quote:
He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.


I agree. He should arrest those members of Congress who signed the letter. Charge them with sedition and send them to Guantanamo.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 02:41 PM
quote:
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.

Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.

This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.


[Edited on 3/10/2015 by OriginalGoober]


The letter was factually incorrect as the Senate does not have the power to do what they threatened to do. Maybe the Republican Senators should put on their big boy pants and learn how to do their jobs.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 02:51 PM
quote:
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully gnores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.


LOL!!! Yes, a good leader would never excercise his right to make executive decisions if Congress isn't acting. Excellent point.

quote:
Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.


Exactly!! As soon as Republicans are willing to work with him, then he should also do the same! Another excellent point.

quote:
This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.


100% true. Those Republicans did not have a choice but to write that letter. They were forced to do it. You didn't know Obama has The Force? "write the letter you will"


 

True Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 03:27 PM
quote:
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.

Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.

This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.


That is an excellent draft of a complete and udder COPOUT for the members of congress that signed this. I'm sure they appreciate your help.

(and I'm sure alloak is just about to jump in and take you to task for taking the "everybody does it" route)

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 03:46 PM
The Iranians are laughing at those buffoons.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 03:51 PM
quote:
quote:
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.

Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.

This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.


That is an excellent draft of a complete and udder COPOUT for the members of congress that signed this. I'm sure they appreciate your help.

(and I'm sure alloak is just about to jump in and take you to task for taking the "everybody does it" route)


He didn't go that route.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 04:00 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.

Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.

This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.


That is an excellent draft of a complete and udder COPOUT for the members of congress that signed this. I'm sure they appreciate your help.

(and I'm sure alloak is just about to jump in and take you to task for taking the "everybody does it" route)


He didn't go that route.


Right. Alloak is treating this as a non event. I mean undermining the president is small potatoes compared to using an unauthorized email account.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 04:12 PM
quote:
quote:
There is a perfect example of why the United States Congress led by Republicans have an approval rating of less than 10%. They are brain dead and will never get it and keep digging themselves deeper and deeper into oblivion.


I don't know about that. Their approval rating might be higher if they would ever make a stand. They promised to do so in their campaigns, but once elected they revert back to their usual cave-in act.


I guess if one used inverted reasoning or logic then this would be the outcome and / or belief.

There is simply no justification for this other than another action in a line of many actions on behalf of a GOP who did not accept the outcome of a national election in 2008 & again in 2012. This is another of the GOP's "we'll show you" calculated and terrible decisions like shutting down the gov't.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/10/2015 at 04:18 PM
quote:
quote:
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.

Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.

This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.


That is an excellent draft of a complete and udder COPOUT for the members of congress that signed this. I'm sure they appreciate your help.

(and I'm sure alloak is just about to jump in and take you to task for taking the "everybody does it" route)


Add to the above - Is there any violation of the Logan Act? It's been a while since I've studied these acts & laws. Maybe it's time to get out some of the old textbooks & see if our "leaders" of the GOP have broken any laws.

 
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