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Author: Subject: Comparing Bernie to Hillary

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 7/8/2015 at 12:51 PM

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/247140-sanderss -integrity-and-honesty-worth-more-than
quote:


Sanders's integrity and honesty worth more than Clinton's billions

July 08, 2015, 07:30 am
By H.A. Goodman, contributor

While CNN published an article headlined "Poll: Clinton's honesty and trustworthy problem extends to swing states," the former secretary of State's main challenger for the Democratic nomination doesn't have a trust problem with voters. The Boston Globe writes that during a campaign visit to Iowa, a former Marine drove six hours to hear Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) speak and another Iraq War veteran stated, "He's the first politician that I've believed in my life." Sanders is down by only 8 points in New Hampshire, primarily because he's championed progressive causes long before they were popular.

The man once stated that he's a "democratic socialist" (very different from the Fox News meaning of socialism), so Americans know that Vermont's junior senator doesn't have a public relations machine vetting his every word.

As a result of his refusal to take a poll-driven and centrist viewpoint on major issues like foreign policy and the economy, Sanders must wage a grass-roots campaign for the White House. NPR reports that his recent total of $15 million came from "250,000 donors making nearly 400,000 contributions of $250 or less." However, Sanders has the trust of the average American, and while Hillary Clinton has amassed $329 million in her career (three of her top five donors are Citigroup, Goldman and JP Morgan), some things can't be purchased with money. The integrity, honesty and bold stances of Sanders might make him a real threat to Clinton’s campaign and he's earned something that billions in campaign fundraising can't buy: the trust of the average American.

In contrast, Clinton has similar positions to Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush on war and Wall Street; previously expressed support for the Trans-Pacific Partnership; previously said she was "inclined" toward the Keystone XL pipeline; and up until 2013, opposed gay marriage, yet is expected to raise $2.5 billion from Democratic supporters. As for her rapport with the average American, Clinton's campaign is running more like a corporation than anything that could be described as "grass-roots." In Orwellian irony, the Clinton campaign recently held business round tables with "everyday" Iowans who also happened to be "selected to attend her events." In addition, her recent Twitter campaign proudly asks, "If you won a dinner with Hillary, what would you ask her?" but doesn't elaborate if Clinton would answer questions about her Iraq War vote, evolution on gay marriage or any other controversial topic. Nonetheless, Clinton is raising hundreds of millions, even though Vice News, the Associated Press and others have sued the State Department for access to her emails as secretary of State (31,830 of which she unilaterally deleted from a private home server without the oversight of a third party).

Sanders, on the other hand, is the antithesis of Clinton. When 72 percent of Americans supported the Iraq War in 2003, Sanders not only voted against the invasion, but foreshadowed its unintended consequences and never allowed intelligence reports to influence his decision-making. During the George W. Bush years, he voted against the Patriot Act at a time when Clinton and other Democrats voted for the controversial legislation. In 1996, as a member of the House of Representatives, Sanders voted against the Defense of Marriage Act (which barred federal recognition of gay marriages), even though 68 percent of Americans were against gay marriage. Regarding our fight against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), Sanders says "I'll be damned" if more American soldiers are sent back to the Middle East, despite 62 percent of registered voters willing to send ground troops. While 65 percent of Americans believe that income inequality is a problem that needs to be "addressed now," Sanders has championed this issue his entire life and blasted then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan on wealth inequality back in 2003.

Sanders wants to break up the most powerful banks in the country, so he isn't beholden to some of the same interests that have bolstered the Clinton campaign. Instead, his road to the White House is based more on the political currency related to his honesty and progressive value system. A Politico article quotes former California State Sen. Tom Hayden (D) explaining how Sanders raises enough money to be competitive:

"It's no small achievement with all the candidates and money," said Hayden. "He is breaking through because he is credible and has a core of committed supporters. He is perceived as a very straight talker and unlike many campaigns on the left, has credentials that are persuasive. He will probably galvanize enough money to run a credible campaign."

Therefore, Sanders is showing that it's possible to run on an unapologetic belief in progressive values, not simply carefully crafted rhetoric that jettisons core principles. Sanders never had to cater to any interests other than his belief system; something that frightens Wall Street while at the same time endears him to working Americans.

His competition, however, is so close to Wall Street that Politico ran a piece last year headlined "Wall Street Republicans' dark secret: Hillary Clinton 2016." It says something about American democracy when Clinton can vote for the Iraq War, oppose gay marriage up until 2013, push for the Trans-Pacific Partnership 45 times (calling it "the gold standard in trade agreements"), oppose even the decriminalization of marijuana and yet still be viewed as a "progressive" candidate for president. In terms of being a champion for women's rights, the Clinton Foundation received between $10 million to $25 million from Saudi Arabia, a country that doesn't allow women to drive a car or travel without a male chaperone. Regarding the environment, Clinton was "inclined" toward the Keystone XL pipeline as secretary of State and one leading environmental group believes, "If the pipeline goes through, she'll shoulder part of the blame." As secretary of State, she lobbied to arm the Syrian rebels (half of the Syrian rebels are aligned with jihadists or "hardline Islamist" groups), presided over a Libyan civil war exacerbated by her bombing campaign and stored government emails on a personal server.

Clinton ended up deleting 31,830 emails during her latest tenure as a government official (the Clinton campaign proclaims a lack of "smoking gun" emails, yet fails to mention that over 30,000 are deleted), but some experts believe they could still be retrieved from her private server. When asked why she used a private email account for government correspondence, Clinton answered "convenience," yet one Freedom of Information Act expert calls this excuse "laughable." During the uproar, she provided a curiously simply explanation, stating that, "I thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal emails instead of two."

Ultimately, because Americans trust Sanders, he won't need billions to win the White House; his value system resonates with a large spectrum of voters throughout the nation. While cynics might say the banks won't let him win, or that he's "too honest" to win, Sanders is proving that integrity is an invaluable form of currency. Clinton, on the other hand, can't use money to answer why she voted for Iraq, just recently evolved on gay marriage and deleted over 30,000 emails. Some things, even in 2015, can't be erased by $2.5 billion.

The differences between both candidates will be evident during the televised Democratic debates (just ask President Nixon about televised debates), when Bernie Sanders will display attributes that money can't buy, and Hillary Clinton won't have the luxury of an expensive campaign apparatus calculating every word. As for precedent, Clinton spent $229.4 million in a losing campaign in 2008, so money still might not be enough in 2016 for her to win the White House. According to OpenSecrets.org, this precedent also left Clinton with $22.5 million in debt, and "at least $11.4 million of which came from her own pocket." Judging by 2016 fundraising estimates, a Clinton loss next year could lead to even more debt, and an even greater amount of money spent on a losing candidate.

Goodman is an author and a journalist.


 

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True Peach



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  posted on 7/8/2015 at 05:33 PM
"Comparing Bernie to Hillary" Hillary sits to pee ... I think.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 7/8/2015 at 06:23 PM
quote:
"Comparing Bernie to Hillary" Hillary sits to pee ... I think.


Oh, really?

 

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  posted on 7/8/2015 at 07:19 PM
I probably don't agree with Sanders on most of his positions but I respect him. He strikes me as being very true to his beliefs and won't waiver according to what polls say, or sell out his credibility for what he thinks might attract some additional votes. He has a spine. He's an absolute polar opposite of Hillary Clinton in those regards.

That being said, he will never get the nomination. Anybody who wants to start separating the Democratic party from Wall Street, the bankers, and the monied interests will NEVER be nominated. The power brokers in the Democratic party will never allow that to happen (nor would Republicans)......And that goes for Liz Warren, as well.

IMO

 

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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 11:19 AM
quote:
I probably don't agree with Sanders on most of his positions but I respect him. He strikes me as being very true to his beliefs and won't waiver according to what polls say, or sell out his credibility for what he thinks might attract some additional votes. He has a spine. He's an absolute polar opposite of Hillary Clinton in those regards.

That being said, he will never get the nomination. Anybody who wants to start separating the Democratic party from Wall Street, the bankers, and the monied interests will NEVER be nominated. The power brokers in the Democratic party will never allow that to happen (nor would Republicans)......And that goes for Liz Warren, as well.

IMO


I wish he would get it. Let an open out and out socialist get the nomination and lets lay the cards on the table.

 

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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 01:43 PM
He should run as an independent.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 01:54 PM
quote:
I wish he would get it. Let an open out and out socialist get the nomination and lets lay the cards on the table.


Democratic Socialist.

Keep that fear mongering alive Dougie Boy.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 02:03 PM
quote:
I probably don't agree with Sanders on most of his positions but I respect him. He strikes me as being very true to his beliefs and won't waiver according to what polls say, or sell out his credibility for what he thinks might attract some additional votes. He has a spine. He's an absolute polar opposite of Hillary Clinton in those regards.

That being said, he will never get the nomination. Anybody who wants to start separating the Democratic party from Wall Street, the bankers, and the monied interests will NEVER be nominated. The power brokers in the Democratic party will never allow that to happen (nor would Republicans)......And that goes for Liz Warren, as well.

IMO


JMO, but like the GOP the Dems will back the candidate they think can win. If Bernie was to suddenly jump out in front of Hillary and the GOP horde in the polls I think you would see the Dems sing a different tune.

From what I observed this happened with Romney in 2012. His own party did not seem to care for him too much but he seemed like the best chance to win the POTUS election so they reluctantly backed him.

Not sure Bernie has enough support to come close to overtaking Hillary but I think Warren would have given her a run for her money if she had decided to run.



[Edited on 7/9/2015 by Bill_Graham]

 

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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 02:22 PM
quote:
He should run as an independent.


I don't think he would want to split the Democratic vote. Although they certainly have differences, he has certainly supported Hillary over the years and I don't think he would want to risk handing over the election to the Republicans.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 05:49 PM
quote:
quote:
I wish he would get it. Let an open out and out socialist get the nomination and lets lay the cards on the table.


Democratic Socialist.

Keep that fear mongering alive Dougie Boy.


....

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 06:18 PM
quote:
quote:
He should run as an independent.


I don't think he would want to split the Democratic vote. Although they certainly have differences, he has certainly supported Hillary over the years and I don't think he would want to risk handing over the election to the Republicans.


Isn't he a declared Independent?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 06:36 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
He should run as an independent.


I don't think he would want to split the Democratic vote. Although they certainly have differences, he has certainly supported Hillary over the years and I don't think he would want to risk handing over the election to the Republicans.


Isn't he a declared Independent?

As a Senator he is an Independent who caucuses with the Democratic party. As a presidential candidate he is running to be the nominee of the Democratic party.

 

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  posted on 7/9/2015 at 06:37 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
He should run as an independent.


I don't think he would want to split the Democratic vote. Although they certainly have differences, he has certainly supported Hillary over the years and I don't think he would want to risk handing over the election to the Republicans.


Isn't he a declared Independent?

As a Senator he is an Independent who caucuses with the Democratic party. As a presidential candidate he is running to be the nominee of the Democratic party.


You just threw a multiple point post at alloak which he won't understand and so he will start to troll.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/10/2015 at 11:57 AM
quote:
quote:
I wish he would get it. Let an open out and out socialist get the nomination and lets lay the cards on the table.


Democratic Socialist.

Keep that fear mongering alive Dougie Boy.


Fear mongoring? The man is a socialist. I didn't say a communist. He's a socialist. It's time you lefties stopped running away from that word.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/10/2015 at 12:11 PM
It's time you right wingers stop painting Socialism with an evil brush. Right wing corporations, weapons manufacturers, banks, Wall Street, all benefit from Socialism far more than the American People.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 7/10/2015 at 05:01 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I wish he would get it. Let an open out and out socialist get the nomination and lets lay the cards on the table.


Democratic Socialist.

Keep that fear mongering alive Dougie Boy.


Fear mongoring? The man is a socialist. I didn't say a communist. He's a socialist. It's time you lefties stopped running away from that word.


According to Wikipedia he is a "self-described democratic socialist".

"Sanders is the longest-serving independent in U.S. congressional history. A self-described democratic socialist, he favors policies similar to those of social democratic parties in Europe, particularly those of Scandinavia. He caucuses with the Democratic Party and has been the ranking minority member on the Senate Budget Committee since January 2015."

If he describes himself that way it seems fair enough that others would describe him that way as well.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/10/2015 at 05:26 PM
"Socialist", to many, has a different connotation than Democratic Socialist. For example, alloak believes that Socialism takes away people's rights.

Regardless, Doug is correct in that America will not vote for Bernie because he is a "Socialist". Most Americans believe that Socialism and Communism are the same thing and that both are dictatorial forms of government.

Personally I think he is a better choice than Hillary but doubt he will be on the ticket.

Frankly I'm already weary of the race. I've been listening to the POTUS channel this week and it is a constant stream of speculation. This never ending election process is tiring.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 7/10/2015 at 06:14 PM
quote:
"Socialist", to many, has a different connotation than Democratic Socialist. For example, alloak believes that Socialism takes away people's rights.

Regardless, Doug is correct in that America will not vote for Bernie because he is a "Socialist". Most Americans believe that Socialism and Communism are the same thing and that both are dictatorial forms of government.

Personally I think he is a better choice than Hillary but doubt he will be on the ticket.

Frankly I'm already weary of the race. I've been listening to the POTUS channel this week and it is a constant stream of speculation. This never ending election process is tiring.

I'm not weary of the race yet simply because I have not been paying much attention and probably won't until next spring. At this point it is mostly just a lot of noise. But based on what I've seen I'm willing to lay 2 to 1 odds that our next president will have the same last name as a former president.

 

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  posted on 7/10/2015 at 09:45 PM
quote:
quote:
"Socialist", to many, has a different connotation than Democratic Socialist. For example, alloak believes that Socialism takes away people's rights.

Regardless, Doug is correct in that America will not vote for Bernie because he is a "Socialist". Most Americans believe that Socialism and Communism are the same thing and that both are dictatorial forms of government.

Personally I think he is a better choice than Hillary but doubt he will be on the ticket.

Frankly I'm already weary of the race. I've been listening to the POTUS channel this week and it is a constant stream of speculation. This never ending election process is tiring.

I'm not weary of the race yet simply because I have not been paying much attention and probably won't until next spring. At this point it is mostly just a lot of noise. But based on what I've seen I'm willing to lay 2 to 1 odds that our next president will have the same last name as a former president.


That's a depressing thought.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/16/2015 at 12:17 PM
quote:
It's time you right wingers stop painting Socialism with an evil brush. Right wing corporations, weapons manufacturers, banks, Wall Street, all benefit from Socialism far more than the American People.


I disagree. Socialism is a terrible pathetic system that destroys the economies of every society where its implemented and I will NOT stop painting it that way just because you don't like it. If you disagree defend it. Don't deny Sanders is a socialist. My God he openly is registered as one.

 

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  posted on 7/16/2015 at 12:21 PM
quote:
"Socialist", to many, has a different connotation than Democratic Socialist. For example, alloak believes that Socialism takes away people's rights.

Regardless, Doug is correct in that America will not vote for Bernie because he is a "Socialist". Most Americans believe that Socialism and Communism are the same thing and that both are dictatorial forms of government.

Personally I think he is a better choice than Hillary but doubt he will be on the ticket.

Frankly I'm already weary of the race. I've been listening to the POTUS channel this week and it is a constant stream of speculation. This never ending election process is tiring.


People don't associate socialism with communism eventhough they both emerge from work of Karl Marx. They associate it with the failed labor parties of Europe. For example Greece.

Winston Churchill was referring to the Labor party of England when he said that capitalism is unequal sharing of blessing, socialism is the equal sharing of misery. He also said that trying to tax your way to prosperity is like a man trying to get out of a well by lifting himself up in a bucket. A wise man he was and a great liberal.

 

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  posted on 7/16/2015 at 01:05 PM
Doug, will you be refusing your Medicare benefits when the time comes as a matter of principle?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/17/2015 at 11:13 AM
quote:
Doug, will you be refusing your Medicare benefits when the time comes as a matter of principle? [/quote

First of all what gives you the idea that I oppose social security Medicare or any other government benefits we have here in the U.S. just because I opose true socialism. I have always maintained and still maintian that I am liberal. Liberal's support a government support system and safety net and I am one of them.

Second, even if I did oppose them, considering I wasn't given the opportunity to opt out of my contribution I don't see why I should opt out of the payment.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 7/17/2015 at 11:26 AM
quote:
Second, even if I did oppose them, considering I wasn't given the opportunity to opt out of my contribution I don't see why I should opt out of the payment.


This is exactly right.

True Story: When I was in my mid-30's, after paying social security and medicare taxes for at least 15 years, I wrote to my congressman and offered the following deal. I would let the government keep all the money they had collected from me up until that point, a sizable sum, and I would never seek to collect any benefit in the future. In return all I asked was to be exempt from any future social security or medicare taxes. My offer was refused. I tried to opt and and couldn't do it. So regardless of my personal opinion about social security or medicare, you bet your a$$ I'm going to collect.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/17/2015 at 11:38 AM
quote:
People don't associate socialism with communism eventhough they both emerge from work of Karl Marx. They associate it with the failed labor parties of Europe. For example Greece.

Winston Churchill was referring to the Labor party of England when he said that capitalism is unequal sharing of blessing, socialism is the equal sharing of misery. He also said that trying to tax your way to prosperity is like a man trying to get out of a well by lifting himself up in a bucket. A wise man he was and a great liberal.



Do you think Bernie could implement anything close to "true" Socialism? Greece is a good example of a massive economic screw up, but what about the countries that have working Socialistic models? Denmark? Finland? Canada? Norway? Ireland? Sweden? Belgium?

 

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Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.



Ralph Nader's Father




 
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