Muleman1994
Universal Peach   Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 12:05 PM |
On heels of attacks, ISIS 'contained' remark — Obama stays the course
THREE DAYS AFTER TEAMS of Islamic State terrorists brazenly carried out raids across Paris that left 129 people dead, President Obama labels the slaughter a 'setback' in responding to questions about his policies and dealing with the ISIS threat.
Obama continues to claim we (he) have ISIS contained in Iraq and Syria.
The people of Paris would disagree.
[Edited on 11/16/2015 by Muleman1994]
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OriginalGoober
Ultimate Peach  Karma: Posts: 3232 (3231 all sites) Registered: 10/5/2005 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 12:34 PM |
Terrible setback to his golf and campaign schedule.
Obama the Campaigner in action here. He really doesn't have a clue when tone and words matter most and when its ok to talk cute and tap dance in circles. he should have left the g20 summit immediately and went back to Washington or meet in Europe to aid France in an appropriate response.
____________________
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BillyBlastoff
Maximum Peach   Karma: Posts: 8271 (8271 all sites) Registered: 6/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 12:41 PM |
quote:
Terrible setback to his golf and campaign schedule.
Obama the Campaigner in action here. He really doesn't have a clue when tone and words matter most and when its ok to talk cute and tap dance in circles. he should have left the g20 summit immediately and went back to Washington or meet in Europe to aid France in an appropriate response.
We provided France with the intelligence to bomb those targets yet left it up to them to decide on their own course.
Obama doesn't have to campaign. He kicked your bull$hit party's ass twice idiot.
You ever hear of multi tasking?
I love listening to how morons would run the world.
We also bombed 100's of oil tankers in Syria today. Oil is how ISIS funds their operations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.htm
l?_r=0
No matter what we do ISIS will not be stopped without Islamic countries, particularly Saudi Arabia stepping up and condemning, not only the actions of ISIS, but also changing their own extreme fundamental practices of beheading and flogging individuals. We need to stop selling them weapons unless they change the way they rule.
[Edited on 11/16/2015 by BillyBlastoff] ____________________
Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.
Ralph Nader's Father
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OriginalGoober
Ultimate Peach Karma: Posts: 3232 (3231 all sites) Registered: 10/5/2005 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 12:52 PM |
quote:
quote:
Terrible setback to his golf and campaign schedule.
Obama the Campaigner in action here. He really doesn't have a clue when tone and words matter most and when its ok to talk cute and tap dance in circles. he should have left the g20 summit immediately and went back to Washington or meet in Europe to aid France in an appropriate response.
We provided France with the intelligence to bomb those targets yet left it up to them to decide on their own course.
Obama doesn't have to campaign. He kicked your bull$hit party's ass twice idiot.
You ever hear of multi tasking?
I love listening to how morons would run the world.
We also bombed 100's of oil tankers in Syria today. Oil is how ISIS funds their operations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.htm
l?_r=0
No matter what we do ISIS will not be stopped without Islamic countries, particularly Saudi Arabia stepping up and condemning, not only the actions of ISIS, but also changing their own extreme fundamental practices of beheading and flogging individuals. We need to stop selling them weapons unless they change the way they rule.
[Edited on 11/16/2015 by BillyBlastoff]
So Obama has an ISIS target list? Glad he shared it with a country willing to DO SOMETHING ____________________
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BillyBlastoff
Maximum Peach Karma: Posts: 8271 (8271 all sites) Registered: 6/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 12:56 PM |
quote:
So Obama has an ISIS target list? Glad he shared it with a country willing to DO SOMETHING
That the best you got? You ignore the drone attacks? The advisors? The weapons? The money? The war in Afghanistan on the ongoing attacks in Pakistan and Syria?
____________________
Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.
Ralph Nader's Father
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Swifty
Extreme Peach  Karma: Posts: 1958 (1961 all sites) Registered: 5/12/2006 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 01:05 PM |
George H Bush states in the recent biography on him that George W, Cheney and Rumsfeld took the country over a cliff with the invasion of Iraq. James Baker called Afghanistan two efforts in adventurism that went wrong. Rand Paul claims that the invasion of Iraq destabilized the entire region.
ISIS not only grew in this vacuum but it thrived with the recruitment of military leaders from the army Bush disbanded.
These are the facts plain and simple.
quote:
The U.S. decision 12 years ago has provided the enemy with some of its best commanders and fighters
After nearly a year of air strikes led by the U.S. and ground attacks by the U.S.-trained Iraqi army, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) is proving to be a far more cagey and cunning foe than the Pentagon ever expected. A big reason for its success is the George W. Bush Administration’s decision to disband the Iraqi army shortly after the 2003 invasion—without the knowledge or consent of either the Pentagon or President.
It’s a jarring reminder of how a key decision made long ago is complicating U.S. efforts to fight ISIS and restore some semblance of stability to Iraq. Instead of giving Iraq a fresh start with a new army, it helped create a vacuum that ISIS has filled. Anthony Zinni, a retired Marine general and chief of U.S. Central Command from 1997 to 2000, said keeping the Iraqi army intact was always part of U.S. strategy. “The plan was that the army would be the foundation of rebuilding the Iraqi military,” he says. “Many of the Sunnis who were chased out ended up on the other side and are probably ISIS fighters and leaders now.” One expert estimates that more than 25 of ISIS’s top 40 leaders once served in the Iraqi military.
General Ray Odierno, the Army chief of staff, says the U.S. could have weeded Saddam Hussein’s loyalists from the Iraqi army while keeping its structure, and the bulk of its forces, in place. “We could have done a lot better job of sorting through that and keeping the Iraqi army together,” he told TIME on Thursday. “We struggled for years to try to put it back together again.”
The decision to dissolve the Iraqi army robbed Baghdad’s post-invasion military of some of its best commanders and troops. Combined with sectarian strains that persist 12 years later, it also drove many of the suddenly out-of-work Sunni warriors into alliances with a Sunni insurgency that would eventually mutate into ISIS. Many former Iraqi military officers and troops, trained under Saddam, have spent the last 12 years in Anbar Province battling both U.S. troops and Baghdad’s Shi’ite-dominated security forces, Pentagon officials say.
“Not reorganizing the army and police immediately were huge strategic mistakes,” said Jack Keane, a retired Army vice chief of staff and architect of the “surge” of 30,000 additional U.S. troops into Iraq in 2007. “We began to slowly put together a security force, but it took far too much time and that gave the insurgency an ability to start to rise.”
http://time.com/3900753/isis-iraq-syria-army-united-states-military/
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LeglizHemp
World Class Peach  Karma: Posts: 5484 (5483 all sites) Registered: 9/9/2011 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 01:06 PM |
has there ever been a time, in the history of the world, when there were no "terrorist" attacks against anyone? when the world was at peace with itself and everyone in it? was it a brutal regime that brought that to the world or a patient one?
we all know the answers to those questions. throwing political bombs around solves nothing.
could conservatives rid the world of liberals or vice versa? gun owners vs those who do not? the list can go on and on.
everyone needs to settle down and take a breath. ____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created
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Muleman1994
Universal Peach Karma: Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 01:51 PM |
quote:
quote:
quote:
Terrible setback to his golf and campaign schedule.
Obama the Campaigner in action here. He really doesn't have a clue when tone and words matter most and when its ok to talk cute and tap dance in circles. he should have left the g20 summit immediately and went back to Washington or meet in Europe to aid France in an appropriate response.
We provided France with the intelligence to bomb those targets yet left it up to them to decide on their own course.
Obama doesn't have to campaign. He kicked your bull$hit party's ass twice idiot.
You ever hear of multi tasking?
I love listening to how morons would run the world.
We also bombed 100's of oil tankers in Syria today. Oil is how ISIS funds their operations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.htm
l?_r=0
No matter what we do ISIS will not be stopped without Islamic countries, particularly Saudi Arabia stepping up and condemning, not only the actions of ISIS, but also changing their own extreme fundamental practices of beheading and flogging individuals. We need to stop selling them weapons unless they change the way they rule.
[Edited on 11/16/2015 by BillyBlastoff]
So Obama has an ISIS target list? Glad he shared it with a country willing to DO SOMETHING
________________________________________________________________________
Yes Obama has an ISIS target list.
It is the targets Obama will not hit because there might be civilian casualties.
Note to Obama, there are always civilian casualties in war.
France is stepping up and into the war against ISIS where Obama tinkers around the edges to cowardly to do his job.
Even better, The Obama administration announced late Sunday that five Yemeni detainees who had been held at the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba have been released.
Five more terrorists back on the battlefield.
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Muleman1994
Universal Peach Karma: Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 01:56 PM |
quote:
has there ever been a time, in the history of the world, when there were no "terrorist" attacks against anyone? when the world was at peace with itself and everyone in it? was it a brutal regime that brought that to the world or a patient one?
we all know the answers to those questions. throwing political bombs around solves nothing.
could conservatives rid the world of liberals or vice versa? gun owners vs those who do not? the list can go on and on.
everyone needs to settle down and take a breath.
________________________________________________________________________
The world has always seen evil where it exists and the good, responsible people stood up and defeated it.
It is not about “throwing political bombs”. It is all about the people calling on the so-called leader of the free world to stand tall and engage.
Leadership matters.
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Swifty
Extreme Peach Karma: Posts: 1958 (1961 all sites) Registered: 5/12/2006 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 02:52 PM |
quote:
quote:
has there ever been a time, in the history of the world, when there were no "terrorist" attacks against anyone? when the world was at peace with itself and everyone in it? was it a brutal regime that brought that to the world or a patient one?
we all know the answers to those questions. throwing political bombs around solves nothing.
could conservatives rid the world of liberals or vice versa? gun owners vs those who do not? the list can go on and on.
everyone needs to settle down and take a breath.
________________________________________________________________________
The world has always seen evil where it exists and the good, responsible people stood up and defeated it.
It is not about “throwing political bombs”. It is all about the people calling on the so-called leader of the free world to stand tall and engage.
Leadership matters.
Patriotism matters in a crisis as well. The GOP en masse has failed the patriotism test as they have turned every misfortune into a political contest.
In this case people like you see success as sacrificing American lives for wars George W lost and no other country really wants to fight anymore. This as Rand Paul says is still George W's war in the Middle East.
I would say leadership involves being big enough to admit failure.
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dougrhon
Zen Peach  Karma: Posts: 20943 (20942 all sites) Registered: 6/15/2005 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 03:24 PM |
quote:
George H Bush states in the recent biography on him that George W, Cheney and Rumsfeld took the country over a cliff with the invasion of Iraq. James Baker called Afghanistan two efforts in adventurism that went wrong. Rand Paul claims that the invasion of Iraq destabilized the entire region.
ISIS not only grew in this vacuum but it thrived with the recruitment of military leaders from the army Bush disbanded.
These are the facts plain and simple.
quote:
The U.S. decision 12 years ago has provided the enemy with some of its best commanders and fighters
After nearly a year of air strikes led by the U.S. and ground attacks by the U.S.-trained Iraqi army, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) is proving to be a far more cagey and cunning foe than the Pentagon ever expected. A big reason for its success is the George W. Bush Administration’s decision to disband the Iraqi army shortly after the 2003 invasion—without the knowledge or consent of either the Pentagon or President.
It’s a jarring reminder of how a key decision made long ago is complicating U.S. efforts to fight ISIS and restore some semblance of stability to Iraq. Instead of giving Iraq a fresh start with a new army, it helped create a vacuum that ISIS has filled. Anthony Zinni, a retired Marine general and chief of U.S. Central Command from 1997 to 2000, said keeping the Iraqi army intact was always part of U.S. strategy. “The plan was that the army would be the foundation of rebuilding the Iraqi military,” he says. “Many of the Sunnis who were chased out ended up on the other side and are probably ISIS fighters and leaders now.” One expert estimates that more than 25 of ISIS’s top 40 leaders once served in the Iraqi military.
General Ray Odierno, the Army chief of staff, says the U.S. could have weeded Saddam Hussein’s loyalists from the Iraqi army while keeping its structure, and the bulk of its forces, in place. “We could have done a lot better job of sorting through that and keeping the Iraqi army together,” he told TIME on Thursday. “We struggled for years to try to put it back together again.”
The decision to dissolve the Iraqi army robbed Baghdad’s post-invasion military of some of its best commanders and troops. Combined with sectarian strains that persist 12 years later, it also drove many of the suddenly out-of-work Sunni warriors into alliances with a Sunni insurgency that would eventually mutate into ISIS. Many former Iraqi military officers and troops, trained under Saddam, have spent the last 12 years in Anbar Province battling both U.S. troops and Baghdad’s Shi’ite-dominated security forces, Pentagon officials say.
“Not reorganizing the army and police immediately were huge strategic mistakes,” said Jack Keane, a retired Army vice chief of staff and architect of the “surge” of 30,000 additional U.S. troops into Iraq in 2007. “We began to slowly put together a security force, but it took far too much time and that gave the insurgency an ability to start to rise.”
http://time.com/3900753/isis-iraq-syria-army-united-states-military/
Right. The complete abandonment of Iraq (after declaring victory and calling it a great cheivement for his administration) and the complete and total abandonment of Syria had zilch to do with it. Golden Boy Obama did nothing wrong. He is perfect. We will see how many Americans agree with that assesment in November. ____________________
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dougrhon
Zen Peach Karma: Posts: 20943 (20942 all sites) Registered: 6/15/2005 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 03:25 PM |
quote:
quote:
quote:
has there ever been a time, in the history of the world, when there were no "terrorist" attacks against anyone? when the world was at peace with itself and everyone in it? was it a brutal regime that brought that to the world or a patient one?
we all know the answers to those questions. throwing political bombs around solves nothing.
could conservatives rid the world of liberals or vice versa? gun owners vs those who do not? the list can go on and on.
everyone needs to settle down and take a breath.
________________________________________________________________________
The world has always seen evil where it exists and the good, responsible people stood up and defeated it.
It is not about “throwing political bombs”. It is all about the people calling on the so-called leader of the free world to stand tall and engage.
Leadership matters.
Patriotism matters in a crisis as well. The GOP en masse has failed the patriotism test as they have turned every misfortune into a political contest.
In this case people like you see success as sacrificing American lives for wars George W lost and no other country really wants to fight anymore. This as Rand Paul says is still George W's war in the Middle East.
I would say leadership involves being big enough to admit failure.
Are you for real? Criticizing Obama means a lack of Patriotism? Seriously? Were you AROUND during the years 2003-2008? The hypocrisy burns like acid. ____________________
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Muleman1994
Universal Peach Karma: Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 03:43 PM |
quote:
quote:
quote:
has there ever been a time, in the history of the world, when there were no "terrorist" attacks against anyone? when the world was at peace with itself and everyone in it? was it a brutal regime that brought that to the world or a patient one?
we all know the answers to those questions. throwing political bombs around solves nothing.
could conservatives rid the world of liberals or vice versa? gun owners vs those who do not? the list can go on and on.
everyone needs to settle down and take a breath.
________________________________________________________________________
The world has always seen evil where it exists and the good, responsible people stood up and defeated it.
It is not about “throwing political bombs”. It is all about the people calling on the so-called leader of the free world to stand tall and engage.
Leadership matters.
Patriotism matters in a crisis as well. The GOP en masse has failed the patriotism test as they have turned every misfortune into a political contest.
In this case people like you see success as sacrificing American lives for wars George W lost and no other country really wants to fight anymore. This as Rand Paul says is still George W's war in the Middle East.
I would say leadership involves being big enough to admit failure.
Straight up lies.
The GOP does not “turned every misfortune into a political contest.” The politics come from Obama who pushes his political agenda instead of doing his job as commander in chief.
“success as sacrificing American lives for wars George W lost” – President Bush had the war won in Iraq, Obama the coward cut and ran allowing ISIS to burst forth.
The GOP is not calling for the “sacrificing American lives”, the GOP is calling for Obama to stand up and deafest ISIS. We have the capability just not the will.
Curiously throughout the ISIS discussion, the liberals show no outrage or spine against Islamic Extremist Terrorism.
Chickensh*t just gets more people killed.
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Muleman1994
Universal Peach Karma: Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 03:45 PM |
The mainstream media turn on Obama for low-key response to the massacre in Paris
By Howard Kurtz - Published November 16, 2015 - FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/16/media-turn-on-obama-for-low-key-
response-to-massacre-in-paris/?intcmp=hpbt3
Kurtz: The press gets serious about terror. Obama clearly irritated.
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BillyBlastoff
Maximum Peach Karma: Posts: 8271 (8271 all sites) Registered: 6/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 03:56 PM |
quote:
Are you for real? Criticizing Obama means a lack of Patriotism? Seriously? Were you AROUND during the years 2003-2008? The hypocrisy burns like acid.
You are either with us or with the terrorist? Is that what you mean?
quote:
The complete abandonment of Iraq (after declaring victory and calling it a great cheivement for his administration) and the complete and total abandonment of Syria had zilch to do with it.
What a despicable lie. ____________________
Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.
Ralph Nader's Father
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Bhawk
Zen Peach  Karma: Posts: 46862 (46863 all sites) Registered: 7/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 03:56 PM |
quote:
We will see how many Americans agree with that assesment in November.
Obama is running for a third term? That's interesting news.
Heartwarming to see the resident neocon have issues with current events. Who was it again that wanted to destabilize the region and topple Saddam?
No invasion of Iraq, no ISIS.
Own it. ____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan
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LeglizHemp
World Class Peach Karma: Posts: 5484 (5483 all sites) Registered: 9/9/2011 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 04:24 PM |
The point is not to minimize the horror. It is, instead, to emphasize that the biggest danger terrorism poses to our society comes not from the direct harm inflicted, but from the wrong-headed responses it can inspire. And it’s crucial to realize that there are multiple ways the response can go wrong.
Paul Krugman ____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created
|
| |
Muleman1994
Universal Peach Karma: Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 04:25 PM |
quote:
quote:
We will see how many Americans agree with that assesment in November.
Obama is running for a third term? That's interesting news.
Heartwarming to see the resident neocon have issues with current events. Who was it again that wanted to destabilize the region and topple Saddam?
No invasion of Iraq, no ISIS.
Own it.
_______________________________________________________________________
There was no ISIS until Obama cut and ran from Iraq.
Hillary Clinton is running for Obama's third term.
Of course it was on Obama and Hillary Clinton's watch that ISIS was born.
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Muleman1994
Universal Peach Karma: Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 04:29 PM |
It seems the liberals are re-arguing the 2003-2008 War on Terrorism. They seem to forget the intelligence failures and failure to respond of the Clinton administration that allowed 9/11 to happen.
The liberals here, while posting distortions about what they think The GOP is wants, never offer how they would defeat ISIS.
Is it because the liberals have no idea, are completely hiding under Obama’s skirt or are unwilling to take a position?
Do the liberals even want ISIS defeated or do they just accept that thousands of people will be killed by ISIS and not care?
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Muleman1994
Universal Peach Karma: Posts: 6189 (6198 all sites) Registered: 6/1/2009 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 04:59 PM |
State Governors are stepping up and blocking Syrian refugees from their States. They are standing up to protect their citizens against Obama’s reckless policy. France has already figured this out.
Obama plan for Syrian refugees scrambled by state opposition
Published November 16, 2015 - FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/16/obama-takes-heat-over-syrian-ref
ugee-policy-fires-back-at-press-conference/
The Paris terror attacks may have put a clamp on President Obama's plans to resettle 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year, as the number of governors saying they won't take them swells.
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gondicar
True Peach   Karma: Posts: 12503 (12493 all sites) Registered: 4/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 05:04 PM |
quote:
The point is not to minimize the horror. It is, instead, to emphasize that the biggest danger terrorism poses to our society comes not from the direct harm inflicted, but from the wrong-headed responses it can inspire. And it’s crucial to realize that there are multiple ways the response can go wrong.
Paul Krugman
Bingo. ____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/
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gondicar
True Peach Karma: Posts: 12503 (12493 all sites) Registered: 4/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 05:07 PM |
quote:
The complete abandonment of Iraq (after declaring victory and calling it a great cheivement for his administration) and the complete and total abandonment of Syria had zilch to do with it.
Wait, what?
 ____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/
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OriginalGoober
Ultimate Peach Karma: Posts: 3232 (3231 all sites) Registered: 10/5/2005 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 05:16 PM |
| No one has forgotten about how we ended up where we are today. Are you actually ok with and approve of things when you listen to your democratic candidates talk in circles about terror? ____________________
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2112
Peach Extraordinaire  Karma: Posts: 4313 (4311 all sites) Registered: 8/26/2006 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 06:06 PM |
quote:
quote:
quote:
We will see how many Americans agree with that assesment in November.
Obama is running for a third term? That's interesting news.
Heartwarming to see the resident neocon have issues with current events. Who was it again that wanted to destabilize the region and topple Saddam?
No invasion of Iraq, no ISIS.
Own it.
_______________________________________________________________________
There was no ISIS until Obama cut and ran from Iraq.
Hillary Clinton is running for Obama's third term.
Of course it was on Obama and Hillary Clinton's watch that ISIS was born.
The withdrawal from Iraq was on a timetable from Bush prior to Obama taking office,so how is that Obama cutting and running? I'm not sure we've had a president cut and run since Reagan did it in Lebanon.
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pops42
True Peach  Karma: Posts: 10440 (10439 all sites) Registered: 8/16/2005 Status: Online
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posted on 11/16/2015 at 06:18 PM |
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
We will see how many Americans agree with that assesment in November.
Obama is running for a third term? That's interesting news.
Heartwarming to see the resident neocon have issues with current events. Who was it again that wanted to destabilize the region and topple Saddam?
No invasion of Iraq, no ISIS.
Own it.
_______________________________________________________________________
There was no ISIS until Obama cut and ran from Iraq.
Hillary Clinton is running for Obama's third term.
Of course it was on Obama and Hillary Clinton's watch that ISIS was born.
The withdrawal from Iraq was on a timetable from Bush prior to Obama taking office,so how is that Obama cutting and running? I'm not sure we've had a president cut and run since Reagan did it in Lebanon.
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