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Author: Subject: Legally Dumping Trump

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 02:52 PM
The RNC Can Legally Dump Donald Trump but It Has to Act Fast

One word in the party’s rules would let it create a vacancy and fill it—like say, declaring the candidate mentally unfit. Then it gets interesting.

What would happen if the GOP dumped Donald Trump?

Top party officials are reportedly exploring options on how to replace the Republican nominee should he exit the race. But suppose, on top of his Gold Star-family insulting, almost-treason encouraging, and baby expelling, Trump were to really cross some line, whatever that might be, and GOP leaders decide they can’t support him anymore. Nor do they just want to disown the Republican nominee; suppose they want him off the ballot. Could they do it?

Or, imagine if Trump himself that sees he’s about to get shellacked (by a woman, no less) and to save himself the humiliation, blames the rigged system and drops out. Again, unlikely—but not impossible to imagine. What then?

I asked Nathaniel Persily, Stanford law professor and a pre-eminent scholar of election law (and, lucky for me, an old friend), what would happen if Trump were to quit, or to be formally dumped by the GOP. Could someone else be the Republican choice for president?

His answer? “Yes—but it depends on timing.” And there are three sets of rules that affect what would happen next.

1. Party Rules
First, Persily explained, are the party’s own rules.
The Republican Party rules states that “the Republican National Committee is hereby authorized and empowered to fill any and all vacancies which may occur by reason of death, declination, or otherwise of the Republican candidate for President of the United States or the Republican candidate for Vice President of the United States.” They could do this by calling a new convention, or, more likely, casting votes remotely.
So in case of a Trump withdrawal, Persily said, “you can either redo the convention or, more likely, the RNC itself would just re-nominate a candidate.”
What about a Trump Dump?
Here, it’s uncharted territory, and Persily doesn't think the RNC has much room to maneuver. But notice that weasel-word “otherwise” in the RNC rules. That basically allows the RNC to come up with any reason to declare the spot vacant. For example, they could, following President Obama, deem him unfit for office – as in, mentally unfit. Or they could hold a vote of no confidence. No doubt, if Trump is fighting them, that would be a bumpy road, possibly involving litigation. It might be easier for leaders to endorse Gary Johnson and move on. But because of that word “otherwise,” it’s likely within the RNC’s power to dump Trump even without his consent. Then they would be able to fill the “vacancy” by majority vote.
Interestingly, that person could be anyone. Mike Pence does not automatically move up the ticket. On the contrary, unless Pence drops out (or is similarly found to be unfit, which seems impossible), he remains the nominee for Vice President, which, after all, is a separate office and a separate nomination. Most likely, the GOP’s knight in shining armor, House Speaker Paul Ryan, would be a leading candidate for a last-minute substitution.
So, within the GOP rules, it’s not hard to replace Trump if he drops out, and it’s not impossible to kick him off the ticket because of the word “otherwise.”

2. State Ballot Rules
Then it gets trickier.

Right now, Donald Trump’s name is set to appear on the ballots of 50 states. “So you have questions about ballot access,” Persily said. “There are deadlines in the state laws and that’s a state-by-state finding.”
For example, Arkansas and Oklahoma require names to be certified by Aug. 10, for example, North Carolina by Aug. 5. Delaware’s ship has already sailed; they require certification the week after the national convention takes place. So in those states, even if the RNC duly voted for his replacement, it would simply be too late to take his name off the ballot.
In other states, though, the RNC has as late as Sept. 21 (Alaska) to replace the names on the ballot. “If it happens in August,” Persily said, “it’s not really a big problem.”
In September, if Trump were to quit or get fired, it’s possible that his name would be on some state ballots but not on others. And in October, it’s too late to take him off the ballot.
Now, just because someone’s on the ballot doesn’t mean they are necessarily in the running. There have been congressional races in which candidates have died while on the ballot. In New York, for example, veteran Congressman Ted Weiss passed away shortly before the 1992 election. Democrats hastily nominated Assemblyman Jerrold Nadler, and even though voters cast their ballots for Weiss, Nadler received the votes. He’s been in Congress ever since.
Presidential elections are different, however, because, as you may recall from the 2000 election, we don’t elect our presidents directly. Actually, voters in each state choose electors who formally vote for president in the Electoral College. And so we have to look to a third set of rules.

3. Electoral College Rules
Suppose Trump quits in October. It’s too late to modify the ballots, but the RNC hastily meets on Skype and puts Paul Ryan’s name in the hat. It’s all over the news, and in some states, there could even be notices at polling stations: “Voting for Trump actually means voting for Ryan.” But still, those voters are pulling the lever by Trump’s name. What happens now?
The question, Persily explains, is whether state electors are pledged to the individual candidate, or to the party that nominated him or her.
“Would Donald Trump’s electors be able to vote for someone else in the Electoral College? Most states say yes—you vote for whoever the party has nominated.”
Alabama, Maine, Massachusetts, Mississippi, South Carolina, Vermont, and Wyoming go by candidate. Here’s Maine, for example: “The presidential electors at large shall cast their ballots for the presidential and vice-presidential candidates who received the largest number of votes in the State.”
So in those states, if Trump says he’s running, and his name is on the ballot, those electors have to vote for Trump. Conceivably, if Trump withdraws of his own accord, courts might rule that Trump wasn’t really the “candidate” anymore, even though he was the name on the ballot. But that isn’t entirely certain.
More states, though, go by party, including Alaska, California, Connecticut, Florida, Michigan, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Washington, Wisconsin, as well as the District of Columbia. Hawaii’s statute, for example, says that “The electors, when convened, if both candidates are alive, shall vote by ballot for that person for president and that person for vice president of the United States, who are, respectively, the candidates of the political party or group which they represent.”
In those states, the state GOP could well say “As duly confirmed at the RNC meeting, Donald Trump is not the nominee of the Republican Party. Electors must vote for the actual nominee, Paul Ryan.”

In sum, right up until Nov. 7, the Republican Party could dump Trump by declaring him unfit for office, reconvening, and nominating someone else. But it would get messier depending on how long they wait.
If Trump withdraws, there’s really no problem, legally speaking, even at the last minute. While his name would be on the ballot, electors would vote for the party’s actual nominee, or courts would declare Trump no longer the “candidate.”


[Edited on 8/3/2016 by cyclone88]

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 02:58 PM
The Lindsey Grahams, Paul Ryans, and John McCains of the world better think twice before
going down this road. Or at least have a good backup plan for when they have to leave political
office. They still don't get it.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 03:12 PM
quote:
The Lindsey Grahams, Paul Ryans, and John McCains of the world better think twice before
going down this road. Or at least have a good backup plan for when they have to leave political
office. They still don't get it.

No, but they are starting to.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 03:19 PM
Would definitely be shocking if such a move were to be attempted. The legal fees would be astronomical to do that much work in 50 states, for one thing.

To pull this off would require some serious leadership behind the charge of removing Trump as the candidate. This looks more like internal saber-rattling to try and get Trump to not...say some of the things he says. There's no time for that, though. One of the tricks to politics is to say things that don't look bad in print. Don't think that's gonna take in three months with Trump. Like the baby thing yesterday, if you watch it, you see that he really wasn't throwing the baby out of the rally, but he was trying to be funny, in a smart-a$$ way. Thing was, it looked horrible in print.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 04:08 PM
I don't see it happening. It would insure a Dem victory and would cripple the GOP for some time. A loss of the election could have a large negative effect, but it would be easier to overcome in 2020.
 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 05:31 PM
quote:
The Lindsey Grahams, Paul Ryans, and John McCains of the world better think twice before
going down this road. Or at least have a good backup plan for when they have to leave political
office. They still don't get it.


And Trump still doesn't get that his picking fights with anyone who says or breathes anything questioning him is a guaranteed loser of a strategy. It may impress some, but in the end this strategy will destroy his chances. He's shouldn't just be trying to appeal to a riled base. He's supposed to be reaching out to all Americans as you like to say. How's that outreach going? His numbers across demographics (all Americans) are magnificent, right?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 05:41 PM
He's made quite a few enemy's within his own party, he's not that bright.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 05:49 PM
It would be hard to force him out, but I wouldn't be surprised if he voluntarily bowed out. I don't think he really wants to be President.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 06:08 PM
quote:
It would be hard to force him out, but I wouldn't be surprised if he voluntarily bowed out. I don't think he really wants to be President.


X2.....He hasn't the intellect nor skin thick enough to even begin to handle the job of president. Watching his continued implosion makes it clear he knows this too but his giant ego won't allow himself to recognize it's all self-inflicted.

I suspect his most recent bizarre behavior is an attempt to create a scenario whereupon he can blame the RNC, media, fellow Republicans, liberals, etc. for his eventual loss or leaving the race. Anything and everyone but himself.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/3/2016 at 11:44 PM
quote:
quote:
The Lindsey Grahams, Paul Ryans, and John McCains of the world better think twice before
going down this road. Or at least have a good backup plan for when they have to leave political
office. They still don't get it.


And Trump still doesn't get that his picking fights with anyone who says or breathes anything questioning him is a guaranteed loser of a strategy. It may impress some, but in the end this strategy will destroy his chances. He's shouldn't just be trying to appeal to a riled base. He's supposed to be reaching out to all Americans as you like to say. How's that outreach going? His numbers across demographics (all Americans) are magnificent, right?


Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes. As far as the cogent part of your post, I have to agree. If I was advising Trump
I would urge him to stay focused and zero in on Hillary, his true opponent, the one he has to
defeat.

Also, it's questionable whether Trump is the one "picking fights," but I would tell him
to ignore everyone taking shots at him, just don't respond. Worry only about beating
Hillary and Hillary alone. That's his mission.

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 05:36 AM
quote:

Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes. As far as the cogent part of your post, I have to agree. If I was advising Trump....


Trump doesn't accept "advice."

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 10:25 AM
quote:
quote:

Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes. As far as the cogent part of your post, I have to agree. If I was advising Trump....


Trump doesn't accept "advice."


He better start.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 11:53 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The Lindsey Grahams, Paul Ryans, and John McCains of the world better think twice before
going down this road. Or at least have a good backup plan for when they have to leave political
office. They still don't get it.


And Trump still doesn't get that his picking fights with anyone who says or breathes anything questioning him is a guaranteed loser of a strategy. It may impress some, but in the end this strategy will destroy his chances. He's shouldn't just be trying to appeal to a riled base. He's supposed to be reaching out to all Americans as you like to say. How's that outreach going? His numbers across demographics (all Americans) are magnificent, right?


Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes. As far as the cogent part of your post, I have to agree. If I was advising Trump
I would urge him to stay focused and zero in on Hillary, his true opponent, the one he has to
defeat.

Also, it's questionable whether Trump is the one "picking fights," but I would tell him
to ignore everyone taking shots at him, just don't respond. Worry only about beating
Hillary and Hillary alone. That's his mission.


He may have blown the doors off his primary challengers, but now he's just blowing...period or blowing opportunities - take your pick.

What he did in the primaries does not seem to port to a general election. He ran most of the primary season as frontrunner. He's running from behind now. Not sure how that fits with his ego or his ability to appeal to a much more diverse electorate than the GOP base. He's not expanding his % nor making inroads with portions of the electorate that he would need to really have a chance.

If you are honest to yourself & look at his behavior and actions in the last week, do you feel like this is someone that is in control of a real game plan & strategy?

He fits the role of a case study for a psychologist more than he fits the role of POTUS.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 12:03 PM
quote:
I don't see it happening. It would insure a Dem victory and would cripple the GOP for some time. A loss of the election could have a large negative effect, but it would be easier to overcome in 2020.


X2 -- if the idea is still to win the election in Nov., eventually the GOP will have to go along with the plurality that nominated him -- it's their best chance of securing the White House

but they may also choose to do what many sports teams do -- 'blow up' the roster & start anew, knowing the next 2-3 years are going to be a struggle -- GOP opposition to Donald may be that intense, who knows -- it's early yet -- don't count out the Donald -- good luck, candidates

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 12:27 PM
quote:
Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes.


Oh? So who did?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 01:18 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't see it happening. It would insure a Dem victory and would cripple the GOP for some time. A loss of the election could have a large negative effect, but it would be easier to overcome in 2020.


X2 -- if the idea is still to win the election in Nov., eventually the GOP will have to go along with the plurality that nominated him -- it's their best chance of securing the White House

but they may also choose to do what many sports teams do -- 'blow up' the roster & start anew, knowing the next 2-3 years are going to be a struggle -- GOP opposition to Donald may be that intense, who knows -- it's early yet -- don't count out the Donald -- good luck, candidates



I think a Trump win will be more damaging to the GOP than a Trump lose. A Trump presidency will be a disaster all around and the GOP loses in the midterms will be tremendous. The party in charge always loose seats in congress during the midterms, and it will be a bloodbath with a Trump presidency. Trump will be out in 4 years or less and will have lost congress. With Clinton, they can continue with the same old gridlock to limit the damage, will likely hold onto congress (at least the house), and if Clinton doesn't do a good job should be able to beat her if they run a strong candidate.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 01:48 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I don't see it happening. It would insure a Dem victory and would cripple the GOP for some time. A loss of the election could have a large negative effect, but it would be easier to overcome in 2020.


X2 -- if the idea is still to win the election in Nov., eventually the GOP will have to go along with the plurality that nominated him -- it's their best chance of securing the White House

but they may also choose to do what many sports teams do -- 'blow up' the roster & start anew, knowing the next 2-3 years are going to be a struggle -- GOP opposition to Donald may be that intense, who knows -- it's early yet -- don't count out the Donald -- good luck, candidates



I think a Trump win will be more damaging to the GOP than a Trump lose. A Trump presidency will be a disaster all around and the GOP loses in the midterms will be tremendous. The party in charge always loose seats in congress during the midterms, and it will be a bloodbath with a Trump presidency. Trump will be out in 4 years or less and will have lost congress. With Clinton, they can continue with the same old gridlock to limit the damage, will likely hold onto congress (at least the house), and if Clinton doesn't do a good job should be able to beat her if they run a strong candidate.


"and if Clinton doesn't do a good job should be able to beat her if they run a strong candidate."

There are many that would tell you that Trump is a strong candidate in that he took out 16 other GOP governors, senators, congressmen, a doctor, and business people. And some of those who agree with Trump, the strong candidate even post on this site.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 02:03 PM
quote:
I think a Trump win will be more damaging to the GOP than a Trump loss.

I agree. Either way the GOP has a few tough years ahead.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 02:58 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I don't see it happening. It would insure a Dem victory and would cripple the GOP for some time. A loss of the election could have a large negative effect, but it would be easier to overcome in 2020.


X2 -- if the idea is still to win the election in Nov., eventually the GOP will have to go along with the plurality that nominated him -- it's their best chance of securing the White House

but they may also choose to do what many sports teams do -- 'blow up' the roster & start anew, knowing the next 2-3 years are going to be a struggle -- GOP opposition to Donald may be that intense, who knows -- it's early yet -- don't count out the Donald -- good luck, candidates



I think a Trump win will be more damaging to the GOP than a Trump lose. A Trump presidency will be a disaster all around and the GOP loses in the midterms will be tremendous. The party in charge always loose seats in congress during the midterms, and it will be a bloodbath with a Trump presidency. Trump will be out in 4 years or less and will have lost congress. With Clinton, they can continue with the same old gridlock to limit the damage, will likely hold onto congress (at least the house), and if Clinton doesn't do a good job should be able to beat her if they run a strong candidate.


"and if Clinton doesn't do a good job should be able to beat her if they run a strong candidate."

There are many that would tell you that Trump is a strong candidate in that he took out 16 other GOP governors, senators, congressmen, a doctor, and business people. And some of those who agree with Trump, the strong candidate even post on this site.


Strong candidates don't have congressmen and other prominent members of their own party endorsing the other party's candidate.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 03:32 PM
quote:
quote:
Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes.


Oh? So who did?


ACORN operatives?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 04:01 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes.


Oh? So who did?


ACORN operatives?



Weakest response ever.

 

____________________
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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 04:48 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes.


Oh? So who did?


ACORN operatives?



Low info voters.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/4/2016 at 10:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes.


Oh? So who did?


ACORN operatives?



Weakest response ever.


And that's saying something.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4397
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  posted on 8/5/2016 at 10:49 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Somehow he blew the doors off his challengers. Someone besides angry white males cast all
those votes.


Oh? So who did?


ACORN operatives?



Weakest response ever.


And that's saying something.


I agree. there is so much snark to choose from.

 
 


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