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Author: Subject: INSTANT LIVE AND ABB ARCHIVAL CD's ARE NOT FOR TRADE!

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  posted on 1/3/2005 at 11:05 PM
I absolutely understand and relate to the desire to share out-of-print material - especially great material! Unfortunately, copying an out-of-print commercial recording is no more legal than copying one that is currently in stock at Amazon. And Instant Live's are commercial recordings.

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 12:07 AM
I received a show last year that was traded as an audience recording and about a month later I ordered the 6 pack Instant Live. After listening to the Instant Live I was amazed at how close the trade sounded to the Instant Live
Unfortunately I can't remember who sent it to me.
It is sad that we even have to bring up this subject and that the rest of our trading is in danger of being terminated.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 12:52 AM
*I absolutely understand and relate to the desire to share out-of-print material - especially great material! Unfortunately, copying an out-of-print commercial recording is no more legal than copying one that is currently in stock at Amazon. And Instant Live's are commercial recordings.*

This is where things get weird. I would like to know what the ABB/management's stance is over the recent dvd project headed by Denza. Is this supported by them, & the like?

Similar to TanDan, I've transferred things from vinyl, well... b/c it's only available on vinyl. After getting it on cdr format, I HAVE given them to people that were interested. Maybe 2-5 people. However, let's be serious-if hundreds & thousands of people wanted a cdr copy off of me, I probably wouldn't need to do the transfer in the first place>the album would most likely be IN PRINT so I could just buy it. Would've saved me much time & money if this was the case.

There are exceptions though: I think Neil Young figured this out when he finally released "On the Beach" on cd.

I won't get into the studio sessions involving Duane..... yet. Maybe some day. A labor of love that has been betrayed by those LOSERS on ebay.

I don't think copying/transferring OOP (out of print material) to the IL shows is remotely close with the degree of "violations" we are discussing. Is it wrong, & breaking the law? Probably. But let's use our heads here. There is a demand for Instant Live shows right now. They need to be purchased to support HTN, Kid Glove, & the other bands involved.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 01:25 AM

It cannot be made more clear than this:

INSTANT LIVE RECORDINGS ARE NOT FOR TRADE!

Out of print, in print, regardless. If you want a copy of an IL show for which you didn't (for whatever reason) get the Instant Live disk ....

THEN TRADE FOR THE AUDIENCE TAPE, FOR GOODNESS SAKE!

Tapers rule!

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 01:32 AM

Read what I wrote above.

There is no ambiguity there. Nothing subject to interpretation.

INSTANT LIVE RECORDINGS ARE NOT FOR TRADE!

If they are traded then tapers will lose incentive to go to the shows and tape. They put forth a LOT of effort, friends! Listen to their tapes with pride! Don't sneak around trying to get an Instant Live after the fact.

You could've gotten one from Kid Glove. If you didn't and still get one, then you are betraying the Brotherhood! Harsh words, but fact.

Please, just trade for the audience tape if you weren't cognizant enough to get the IL.

Tapers rule!

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 01:36 AM

Re Denza's DVD project ...

I don't believe a single frame of Denza's wonderful DVD has ever been commercially released. When or if it is, then it will no longer be tradable.

In the meantime enjoy it and hope that someday soon a commercial high-quality version is available. Denza will rejoice at that day and so will I.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 01:38 AM

I apologize for the multiple posts, but this is a subject about which I have very strong feelings.

In case anyone hasn't gotten the message yet ...

INSTANT LIVE RECORDINGS ARE NOT FOR TRADE!

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 02:24 AM
Don't make him get the robot monkeys after you!


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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 09:28 AM
*Read what I wrote above.

There is no ambiguity there. Nothing subject to interpretation.

INSTANT LIVE RECORDINGS ARE NOT FOR TRADE!*

Read it, & it's understood. Very CRYSTAL clear. Did you read my last sentence to my post?

My "ambiguity" doesn't lie with INSTANT LIVE RECORDINGS. It's with albums such as TanDan's Bob Seger albums.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 10:03 AM
Hey Hop- I'm a little bit confused... can we trade Instant Lives?


 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 11:35 AM
I'm trying to collect all the '04 shows. I have alot of IL's from the 18 '04 shows I've been to and also have alot of audience recordings that I've collected so far. I'll say at least 90% of the audiences are every bit as good as the IL's and in some cases better. Also, some of my IL's have a TAO type gap between tracks which is annoying and for the money paid should not be there. The powers that be are right to bitch about the copyright infringement which has been going on since the IL's were introduced ( you're just noticing now?) but a little quality control of the discs themselves (the TAO gaps go back to the '03 discs too) would be appreciated by this paying customer...

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 11:39 AM
Is this horse dead yet???????????????? This has been beatin into a pile of trebeling slop.........

It's amazing that Rowland needs to step in to CLARIFY what has been said on this forum many many times.......But because it hasn't been said by someone who people think has the knowledge there are some who would actually question the legaity of trading released material......And make excuses like...."Hey I'm ripping of corporations who have been ripping us off for years!!!".........If it has been release at any time and is in print or not you don't have the right to make numerous copies to give out to others who will then do the same thing.......

It really is a no-brainer.............

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 11:46 AM
THANK YOU ROWLIE!!!

thank god we have a definative source to send people who just DONT GET IT.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 02:31 PM
quote:
Is this horse dead yet???????????????? This has been beatin into a pile of trebeling slop.........

It's amazing that Rowland needs to step in to CLARIFY what has been said on this forum many many times.......But because it hasn't been said by someone who people think has the knowledge there are some who would actually question the legaity of trading released material......And make excuses like...."Hey I'm ripping of corporations who have been ripping us off for years!!!".........If it has been release at any time and is in print or not you don't have the right to make numerous copies to give out to others who will then do the same thing.......

It really is a no-brainer.............




I don't think there are any who don't get it. There are many, however, who don't care.

Post the rules. [done] If one breaks the rules, they lose their privileges. Seems simple enough to me.

What I'm reading into Rowland's post though, is that if simply banning these abusers is not enough to stop the trend, then one or both of these things could happen 1) shows that are released as IL's will no longer be tradeable (which I believe is the Dick's Picks policy) and 2) this web site will no longer support a trading forum. I'm sure most of us would agree that either of these possibilities are grim. And, while the GD organization can put a policy in place about old shows, it's really up to the integrity of the traders to live up to it. The ABB can give the policy some teeth, however, by enforcing this at future shows: not allowing people to tape any IL show.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 02:36 PM
quote:
The ABB can give the policy some teeth, however, by enforcing this at future shows: not allowing people to tape any IL show.



I hate to even say this, but this might actually encourage unscrupulous folks from copying & trading the ILs if they can't get a taper's version. Just a thought...

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 02:51 PM
If people were not allowed to audience tape IL shows, and then after the IL's of those particular shows were out of print... this would drive demand and prices through the ceiling. It would be like prohibition. A bonanza for the illegal traders. If they forbid audience taping of specific IL shows they would need to make damn sure a massive supply existed for them to not go out of print for a long time. Imagine the most mind blowing ABB show ever. Then imagine no audience tapes existed. Then imagine the 50,000 or so IL's of that show sell out. Those would be on e-bay at unbelievable prices and a certain amount of people would cdr them at unbelievable prices. The only real alternative would be no taping and no IL's. And that most mind blowing show would be gone forever.
 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 02:56 PM
Um, I don't want to do any illegal trading, but how does one go about getting a copy of that DVD that Denza made?

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 03:38 PM
Concerning the older IL shows that are no longer available, I think that at some point down the line that the ABB and/or ClearChannel will eventually set-up a website, that for a fee, someone could download some of these "archival" IL shows. The shows are already digitally recorded and if there is a demand for certain "archival" shows, this would be a way for fans to get a IL quality recording of the show and still allow the ABB to be compensated for their work. It's certainly something for the band to think about, which I'm sure some of them may be doing.

[Edited on 1/4/2005 by cleaneduphippy]

 
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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 05:19 PM
I've never held a IL, but I will when HTN ships me the Fox Box I ordered.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 08:08 PM
quote:
quote:
The ABB can give the policy some teeth, however, by enforcing this at future shows: not allowing people to tape any IL show.



I hate to even say this, but this might actually encourage unscrupulous folks from copying & trading the ILs if they can't get a taper's version. Just a thought...


I was thinking the same thing.

Ban the audience tapes so the IL is the only one available.

Wait for six months to make it available. (other than night of show)

Wonder why no one wants to buy it. (cause everyone got it from the attendees)

And don't even think about BT.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 08:20 PM
Hey does anybody have a feel for what the other bands are doing? The ones that also do the IL thing? Are they more liberal as far as trading, or are they of the same thought as the ABB? I'm just kinda curious of what the norm is?
 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 08:35 PM
Good point Clay!

I still think management ought to be more interested in the jessica-1707 types who are obviously looking to trade/sell.

These are the type who don't even buy 20 copies of the IL at the venue and resell.

At least those folks have paid the band.

But don't go looking at Phil & Friends.

They do that friendly BT thing.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 08:39 PM
PEARL JAM has directly said that they do not give a f*ck what anyone does with their IL recordings (the NY show has Eddie Vedder saying to the crowd to trade them all you want).... " If you bought a copy, thank you "

I know for a fact that PEARL JAM is not linked to Clear Channel/Instant Live. It is another company that is doing their shows.

THE WHO doesn't seem to care either.
PIXIES only print up 1000 copies per show. Almost all the shows recordings have been sold out before the show happenes via a pre-sale.

Thanks RON, completely forgot about PHIL LESH...... The live downloads are his gift to his fans for buying his concert tickets year after year without record sales. Just seems right to him to give back to the hard-core fans who have supported him for years.

[Edited on 1/5/2005 by Billy_Kain]

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 08:54 PM
I don't think the profit from ABB IL's would increase if Audience Tapers were banned from the shows, I mean how many people actually trade... I doubt many that attend concerts..... I could be wrong because there are a lot of us around. Even people that do trade, still buy IL's... I can see if the copy and tradings of IL's continues, I'm sure Tapers will be banned from not only ABB gigs, but all clearchannel gigs... hence, wiping out most of tape traders

 

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  posted on 1/4/2005 at 09:23 PM
I really hope the tapers are left alone!
 
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