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Author: Subject: The Boycott

World Class Peach





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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 09:36 AM
What are your sentiments on someone taking a day to close their business, not purchase anything, and protest for those who wish to come into the country illegaly?

I think that if you want to close down to support illegal immigration, I can choose not to shop there.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 09:37 AM
I've been too busy working to keep up with the whole affair.
 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 09:58 AM
I typically don't buy into other people's agendas. I work when I want to, shop where I want to.

But I applaud those who are taking to the streets on Monday to try to change something in this country for the better, taking the power back to the people, so to speak. If I want something to bitch about, I'll bitch about the president lying to start a war that has killed and maimed tens of thousands of Americans.

Working people trying to better their lives is not something I'm going to bitch about.

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 10:11 AM
quote:


But I applaud those who are taking to the streets on Monday to try to change something in this country for the better, taking the power back to the people, so to speak. (snip)
Working people trying to better their lives is not something I'm going to bitch about.


If it was someone trying to better their working conditions, such as the farm workers boycott, I'd agree with it too. But, this is about wanting us to not stop illegal aliens from coming into the country.
What's wrong with getting in the legal way?

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 10:27 AM
Nothing. But employers in the U.S. have jobs available for illegal immigrants. How can I blame them for someone for taking them? The fact is, the people are already here, working and living. We have ignored them. Now we act like the only choice we have is to send them back home.

And why? Because some loud, fearful people are on TV squalling about how much damage these people are doing to our society. I say Congress is doing far more damage.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 10:32 AM
I'd rather see you boycott all the rich dudes who hire illegal help and profit from it instead of get in trouble like they are supposed to......
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 11:45 AM
OTF,

I didn't know you lived in my neck of the woods. What you say is pretty much true and I certainly see all of that where I live at. Just yesterday, I was in a major chain grocery store (Shopper's Food) here in northern Virginia, and the announcements they were making about what's on sale, ect where entirely in Spanish ??? Isn't English the spoken language for American businesses, or has that been changed? Of course, school systems accross the country are having a very difficult time meeting the requirements of the "No Child Left Behind" requirements because much of their resources are having to be pulled to meet the ESL (English as Second Language) needs of the children of these "illegal immigrants". On top of that, the area where I'm living at (Northern Virginia)is having huge problems with Latino gangs (MS-13, etc). Even the townhouse community where I live has already started seeing some of their graffiti, and we won't into the problems of the "extended" family (6 to 8 adults with children living in a 3 bedroom townhouse and every damn one of them has a vehicle although their is only 2 parking spaces assigned to each townhouse), and all the trash and garbage that they generate (btw, what is it about Hispanic culture (you hear that a lot around here "it's our culture", that makes it's alright that when an appliance or some furniture breaks that it's alright just to dump right out front on the side of street? You would thing with all trucks that they own (just about all of them seem to have a truck) that they could take it down to county dump. Maybe it's just me, but "my culture" doesn't want to have where I live at look like a scene out of the "third world". I know that there is no way you can send 11 million illegal, poorly educated "guest workers" back, but we damn well need to stop any more from coming through. And making those already here citizens, certainly sends the wrong message. As far as I'm concerned if you're in United States illegally you certainly don't or shouldn't have the rights of those who are here legally or who are actually citizens of the United States.

 
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Universal Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 11:53 AM
Found this in the Washington Times and it's a damn shame to see something like this happen. Also, it shoots holes in the theory that American workers won't do the jobs that "illegals" do.

Arrival of aliens ousts U.S. workers
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
April 10, 2006

An Alabama employment agency that sent 70 laborers and construction workers to job sites in that state in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina says the men were sent home after just two weeks on the job by employers who told them "the Mexicans had arrived" and were willing to work for less.

Linda Swope, who operates Complete Employment Services Inc. in Mobile, Ala., told The Washington Times last week that the workers -- whom she described as U.S. citizens, residents of Alabama and predominantly black -- had been "urgently requested" by contractors hired to rebuild and clear devastated areas of the state, but were told to leave three job sites when the foreign workers showed up.

"After Katrina, our company had 70 workers on the job the first day, but the companies decided they didn't need them anymore because the Mexicans had arrived," Mrs. Swope said. "I assure you it is not true that Americans don't want to work.

"We had been told that 270 jobs might be available, and we could have filled every one of them with men from this area, most of whom lost their jobs because of the hurricane," she said. "When we told the guys they would not be needed, they actually cried ... and we cried with them. This is a shame."

Mrs. Swope said employment agencies throughout Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi faced similar problems, when thousands of men from Mexico and several Central and South American countries -- many in crowded buses and trucks -- came into the three states after Katrina, looking for employment and willing to work for less money.

The number of foreign workers who flooded the area after the hurricane has been estimated at more than 30,000. Many of them have been identified by law-enforcement authorities and others as illegal aliens.

The Gulf Coast Latin American Association noted in a report that whether those workers will remain after the cleanup work is completed is not clear, but the longer those jobs last, the more likely it is that the workers will settle permanently. After Hurricane Andrew hit southeastern Florida in 1992, the association said, the construction boom attracted large numbers of Hispanic immigrants to several areas, including Homestead, Fla., where the Latino population doubled during the 1990s.

Many of the illegal aliens came into the Gulf Coast states not only from south of the border but also from California, Arizona and Texas, responding to the demand for workers. U.S. Border Patrol officials in the three states have reported an increase in the number of illegals apprehended.

Some of the migrants who did get jobs in the Gulf states also were mistreated, records show. Two class-action lawsuits are pending in federal court in New Orleans in which thousands of migrant workers said they never were paid, although many worked 12-hour shifts, seven days a week and were required to remove toxic contamination from hurricane-ravaged buildings.

Some of the named companies were working on contracts from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and other government agencies.

Government estimates put at 400,000 the number of jobs lost in the Gulf region as a result of Katrina, which displaced more than 1.5 million people, and many of those workers left the area to seek employment elsewhere because available construction, laborer and cleanup jobs in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi had been filled by foreign workers, including illegal aliens.

President Bush last week signed the Katrina Emergency Assistance Act of 2006, which extended for 13 weeks unemployment compensation benefits to more than 140,000 residents of the Gulf states who were displaced from their jobs by Katrina. Their benefits, funded by FEMA, had expired March 4.

Would-be employers in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi, awash in cleanup and reconstruction jobs, faced little in the way of legal problems in hiring the illegal aliens after Katrina because the Department of Homeland Security temporarily suspended the sanctioning of employers who hired workers unable to document their citizenship.

Mr. Bush also had suspended the Davis-Bacon Act, which requires local contractors to pay "prevailing" wages, in the areas hit by Katrina to encourage reconstruction and cleanup.

"The men we sent to jobs in Alabama were local fellows looking for work, men who needed jobs," Mrs. Swope said. "After driving 50 miles to the work sites where they had been promised $10 an hour, they discovered the employers had found substitutes who were willing to work for less."

 
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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 12:09 PM
every generation has problems with immigrants (legal or illegal) and jobs so you cant complain about how mexican and where ever else theyre from are willing to work longer hours for less money, but the fact that the contractors just fired their workers to make room for the immigrants is unbelievable and unacceptable. i think the govt needs to make the penalties for acts likes these more severe and think of a way to check for this problem to enforce it.
 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 12:33 PM
quote:
every generation has problems with immigrants (legal or illegal) and jobs so you cant complain about how mexican and where ever else theyre from are willing to work longer hours for less money, but the fact that the contractors just fired their workers to make room for the immigrants is unbelievable and unacceptable. i think the govt needs to make the penalties for acts likes these more severe and think of a way to check for this problem to enforce it.



Why should they do that? Most of these contractors are very loyal Republicans voters. Of course, this whole immigration issue is tearing the Republican party apart. On one hand, you got the Republican crowd who LOVES having a somewhat unending supply of "very cheap labor". On the other hand, you have the other Republican crowd, who's very troubled about American's ability to control her borders in this post 9/11 age and with all the associated cost that comes with "taking care" of growing population of poor, mostly uneduated "illegal immigrants". Of course the whole illegal immigration issue will be solved once and for all, if and when a WMD is detonated in a major American city and the facts show the weapon was brought across our southern border. Hope and pray it doesn't happen, but nevertheless, it's something that very well could happen.

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 01:01 PM
quote:
What are your sentiments on someone taking a day to close their business, not purchase anything, and protest for those who wish to come into the country illegaly?

I think that if you want to close down to support illegal immigration, I can choose not to shop there.


I don't think they should close their businesses in solidarity; but boycotting their store isn't the answer either because you are doing the same thing they are doing, just for a different reason. They close down, and you refuse to shop there. They are entitled to their own political beliefs, but they should not let that interfere with their business. I also support the President in his statement that the National Anthem should not be sung in Spanish because it is not the language of this country. When I visit some of the countries of the Middle East and Asia, I will at least be conversant in one of the languages there. I will not go to Afghanistan and say, well I am American and we are here so all of you need to speak English, I will learn Pashto before I go there.

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 01:02 PM
quote:
I'd rather see you boycott all the rich dudes who hire illegal help and profit from it instead of get in trouble like they are supposed to......


Halliburton in Iraq?

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 01:06 PM
I guess I'm not eating at Wendy's or What-A-Burger on Monday.

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 01:16 PM
quote:
While I see both sides of the argument, I live in a city that has many illegals. There is also a very large employment market for them.


Thats the key right there that nobody wants to talk about IMO. The people that hire these folks for much, much less than what you or I would make to do the same job. The right loves the supply and demand argument to defend the oil companies, but this is a perfect example of it in action. If you held the employers accountable for hiring undocumented workers, you would soon see a lack of jobs for the illegals.

quote:
However, there are a large number of these people who work day jobs and are paid under the table. They pay no taxes.


I dont know where that fable got started. Everyone pays taxes every time the buy a product in a store. State, local, and federal. Beer, cigarettes, food, etc. They may not pay lump sum federal taxes like you and me, but I can assure you they arent getting their purchases tax free. Do illegal aliens buy gas? You bet. Federal taxes right there. How about cigarettes? Booze? More federal taxes.

quote:
Their children attend our schools and receive free medical treatment by going to a hospital emergency room whenever they get sick. Who eventually pays for that?


Frankly, I dont care. I *want* a sick child to get treatment..I dont care if they were born here or not. Ill send an extra .000001 $ to pay for it. What about all the "citizens" that get medical treatment but never pay the bills because they are too poor? How is that any different?

quote:
The average time to wait to be seen in one of these ER's in a non-emergency situation is 6 to 10 hours. This overwhelms the staffs, which in turn causes many proffessionals to work in other areas.


I hope you arent seriously blaming the hospital wait times primarily on illegal aliens? Im in and out of hospitals all the time (not a patient, of course) and I can attribute long wait times to shortages of staff, goofing off by staff, heads stuck in rears, lack/shortage of diagnostic equipment, overworked labs, too many other patients (both legal and illegal)

quote:
There are other problems as well, starting with the refusal of many to learn English


How is this a problem for them? Are they unable to function in society? What about the millions of Italians, Germans, Polish etc. etc. etc. that came to America and never learned to speak English? I can go to communities right here in Texas that *still* do not utilize English beyond being able to 'get by'. Polish and Czech communities in particular are this way.

quote:
operating unsafe vehicles with no license, registration or insurance.


Yeah, we dont have "citizens" that do that... Dont come to Texas and especially San Antonio.

quote:
Their children often become gang members as a defense against a society that they don't understand.


The reasons kids become gang members are varied and many. Being an illegal alien to fight society is so far down the list as to be irrelevant. They understand the society just fine..thats why they are here, remember? As for the gang issue, I could show you areas of town here that are white, mexican, black, brown and asian that have huge gang problems. We actually have more than a few gangs from very affluent areas. Its not about fighting society, its about acceptance and having a sense of belonging (very simple explanation there..its really far more complicated). There are literally generations of gangs in our city.

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Crime and drug abuse are big problems in the section of the city where most of these people live.


Or anywhere that poverty exists. I can go to our East side (predominantely African American) where its very poor. Lots of crime and drugs too.

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I don't know what the answer is, but just giving these people their citizenship won't solve the problem.


No, it wont, but blaming them for everything you see wrong in society wont help them either. The truth is that no one group has a monopoly on the ills of society. There are white drug addicts, black gang members, hispanic illegal aliens etc. While the illegals might be 1% of the problem, all of a sudden they are seen as being *the* problem. I wonder why that is. I guess my point is that if you are going to point out all of the problems in your community, dont blame the illegals for it when you have people hiring them and thus creating a market, you have a government that refuses to punish those people hiring the illegals and thus being complicit in the entire problem from start to finish. You also fail to acknowledge the role of all the others in society that contribute to the problems you are complaining about. I dont think you meant to single out the illegal aliens, but thats how it sounded when I read it.

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 02:33 PM
It seems to me the first step is stem the flow of illegal aliens entering this country. Then enforce the laws already on the books and give law enforcement the means they need to accomplish a & b above. Go after the employers who hire illegal aliens hard, so that it is no longer profitable to hire them. The labor market for illegals will begin to dry up, and illegals will not have the incentive to come here illegally. Nothing new about these ideas, but we don't seem to be able or willing to implement a system for dealing with this problem that is already in place.
 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 02:46 PM
quote:
If you held the employers accountable for hiring undocumented workers, you would soon see a lack of jobs for the illegals.



But those folks don't ever get in trouble why is that? And all us little peeps fightin again amongst ourselves so we don't pay attention to what the man behind the curtain is up to ......

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 04:36 PM
quote:
Who blamed them for everything that is wrong? Show me where I said that. I'm not saying that illegals are the only ones with the problems I listed. I am saying that these problem are vastly more prevalent in their community. And I spoke of my community, which I know far better than you do.


As I said in my post, "I dont think you meant to single out the illegal aliens, but thats how it sounded when I read it."

I wasnt aware that illegal aliens in Las Vegas were different than the illegal aliens in San Antionio.... Seriously though, my comments can be applied anywhere and they were in response to the traditional illegal alien complaints we have all heard for years.

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 09:10 PM



quote:
However, there are a large number of these people who work day jobs and are paid under the table. They pay no taxes.


I dont know where that fable got started. Everyone pays taxes every time the buy a product in a store. State, local, and federal. Beer, cigarettes, food, etc. They may not pay lump sum federal taxes like you and me, but I can assure you they arent getting their purchases tax free. Do illegal aliens buy gas? You bet. Federal taxes right there. How about cigarettes? Booze? More federal taxes.


That's the point.......ALL of us pay taxes when we buy things at the store. But many of these folks ARE NOT paying income tax like the rest of us. That is total B/S



quote:
Their children attend our schools and receive free medical treatment by going to a hospital emergency room whenever they get sick. Who eventually pays for that?


Frankly, I dont care. I *want* a sick child to get treatment..I dont care if they were born here or not. Ill send an extra .000001 $ to pay for it. What about all the "citizens" that get medical treatment but never pay the bills because they are too poor? How is that any different?

What about school taxes we pay? Everything is expensive enough - everyone should have to pay their own way

quote:
There are other problems as well, starting with the refusal of many to learn English


How is this a problem for them? Are they unable to function in society? What about the millions of Italians, Germans, Polish etc. etc. etc. that came to America and never learned to speak English? I can go to communities right here in Texas that *still* do not utilize English beyond being able to 'get by'. Polish and Czech communities in particular are this way.


I will throw in one recent story that happened near me - it is maybe a questionable example, but if this wouldn't make you want to speak English, I don't know what would. A lady and her 18 mo old son are leaving the grocery store - the little boy runs out and gets hit by a car, an old man driving, who never even saw the boy - unfortunately, the boy is being dragged along the pavement - the mother is screaming at the driver, in Spanish, to stop. She scared the daylights out of this guy - who had NO IDEA WHAT SHE WAS SAYING. Luckily, the boy is okay.




 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 09:16 PM
Lastly regarding the National Anthem in spanish - this is my opinion. That is completely disrespectful and an insult to America. That's my biggest problem with many Latinos I have met. They come running here to America, but can't have the decency to just shut the f up, live quietly, respectfully and legally belong here. And they spit on us every chance they get - I have felt a strong dislike from many I have met, either as neighbors or co-workers. We all come from different cultures, but I think you have to adapt when you come here - at least partly. Or, go the f back home.
 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 09:32 PM
quote:
That's the point.......ALL of us pay taxes when we buy things at the store. But many of these folks ARE NOT paying income tax like the rest of us. That is total B/S


If you make, lets say, $5.00 an hour as an illegal alien, do you know how much you would have to earn before you would have to pay taxes? Working 40 hours a week, youre making $200 a week or $10,400 a year. Guess what? Youre not paying federal taxes. However, my point was that aliens do indeed pay taxes, just like everyone else. What do you think those taxes are for when they are imposed by state, local and federal agencies? Taxes on products, like all taxes, go into general funds for use in financing our needs as a municpality, state or nation.



quote:
What about school taxes we pay? Everything is expensive enough - everyone should have to pay their own way.


What about it? My 75 yr old mother still pays school tax to this day and I havent been in public school for 20+ years. So, because a child isnt a citizen, they should be prevented from getting an education? As long as teachers make poverty level incomes and the standards of education are so low, please spare me the concern that some illegal alien might learn something.

quote:
I will throw in one recent story that happened near me - it is maybe a questionable example, but if this wouldn't make you want to speak English, I don't know what would. A lady and her 18 mo old son are leaving the grocery store - the little boy runs out and gets hit by a car, an old man driving, who never even saw the boy - unfortunately, the boy is being dragged along the pavement - the mother is screaming at the driver, in Spanish, to stop. She scared the daylights out of this guy - who had NO IDEA WHAT SHE WAS SAYING. Luckily, the boy is okay.


Well, from a 3rd party standpoint, I would suggest that the old man probably had no business behind the wheel. If someone is frantically screaming at me as Im driving by, Im certainly going to slow down or stop due to this regardless of what they are saying for fear that something is wrong. Thats human nature.

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 10:31 PM
quote:
quote:
That's the point.......ALL of us pay taxes when we buy things at the store. But many of these folks ARE NOT paying income tax like the rest of us. That is total B/S


If you make, lets say, $5.00 an hour as an illegal alien, do you know how much you would have to earn before you would have to pay taxes? Working 40 hours a week, youre making $200 a week or $10,400 a year. Guess what? Youre not paying federal taxes. However, my point was that aliens do indeed pay taxes, just like everyone else. What do you think those taxes are for when they are imposed by state, local and federal agencies? Taxes on products, like all taxes, go into general funds for use in financing our needs as a municpality, state or nation.

People in this country who are taxed and make even minimum wage pay fed and state taxes - I'm talking about folks who earn all their pay and pay no taxes at all - that is b/s


quote:
What about school taxes we pay? Everything is expensive enough - everyone should have to pay their own way.


What about it? My 75 yr old mother still pays school tax to this day and I havent been in public school for 20+ years. So, because a child isnt a citizen, they should be prevented from getting an education? As long as teachers make poverty level incomes and the standards of education are so low, please spare me the concern that some illegal alien might learn something.

Again, my point exactly. Everyone must contribute, and those who don't - I would never say they should be denied an education (where do you get that?) - but all must contribute - period. Really, as I re-read your above response, it was just lame. Where did you possibly pick up from anything I said that I don't want anyone to learn. Exactly the opposite.

 

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  posted on 4/29/2006 at 11:56 PM
quote:
That's the point.......ALL of us pay taxes when we buy things at the store. But many of these folks ARE NOT paying income tax like the rest of us. That is total B/S



With an average nationwide annual iincome of around $30,000 , I would say that about 1/4 of our population of citizens don't "pay" federal taxes, including myself. I get a refund of all the money I "paid" from each paycheck plus I get credit for my kids and an earned income credit on top of that. So to say that all citizens who work pay federal taxes isn't correct.
The illegals spend alot of money living here so they do, in fact, contribute to our economy and their absence would hurt our capitalist-run society of consumerism, supply and demand.

 

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  posted on 4/30/2006 at 12:09 AM
quote:
I have felt a strong dislike from many I have met, either as neighbors or co-workers.


I have had the opposite experience. Maybe it has more to do with how "we" approach people.....

 

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  posted on 4/30/2006 at 12:21 AM
quote:

With an average nationwide annual iincome of around $30,000 , I would say that about 1/4 of our population of citizens don't "pay" federal taxes, including myself. I get a refund of all the money I "paid" from each paycheck plus I get credit for my kids and an earned income credit on top of that. So to say that all citizens who work pay federal taxes isn't correct.



Your welcome.

 

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  posted on 4/30/2006 at 12:35 AM
greetings:

The issue with me is "legal" vs. "illegal" period. I have encountered lots of immigrants from all over the planet. How is it that someone from halfwayround the world can get in America legal, but someone who can walk into the country fail to do likewise. I am expected to abide by the laws of our country, but it seems that some people are "special" and it isn't expected of them. I don't have a problem with hispanics walking all over town waving thier Mexican flag and boycotting via the May Day thing. I have a problem with the media making this a racial thing and the politicians utililizing the problem as a platform to manipulate an agenda to gather votes from those they could actually care less about. If they did, they would of addressed it prior to the U.S legislative branch having a lil vote on the matter. If you wanna work and provide for your family, do it as the laws dictate. I have to or I go to jail. This should be the same for EVERYONE.

 

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